Super-Saiyan 4 Gogeta's on ebay. Autehnticity please?

abclancy26 · Post by **abclancy26** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:15 pm

I just contacted the ebay seller, as i thought id get another opinion. Now it seems the seller is ending the cels as they have received numerous spiteful and somewhat nasty emails regarding this matter! I think this is ridiculous.

And the comment above is null and void, and absolutly pathetic.

It seems that rubbish fan cels being sold ebay have tarnished the reputation of genuine cel collectors and sellers like the person in question.

As i said before, the term 'witch hunt' comes to mind, and now it seems various people are looking to ruin the reputation of the ebay seller, out of jealousy, which is very silly indeed.

I think i will take my DBZ/GT to the grave if this is the consequence of 2 real GT cels being sold on ebay.

DragonballZSubzero · Post by **DragonballZSubzero** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:27 pm

While I generally don't like to start heated debates over topics such as this, I feel I must reply to these interesting comments.

To begin with, I think we are hardly "jealous" of the cels. I have two SSJ4 Gogetas of my own, I don't think I am dire need of another one. The guy who started this post has an awesome SSJ4 Gogeta and one of the other commenters has an amazing collection of DBZ cels as well. It is because of this that we feel we should add our opinions considering we can compare to our own.

Secondly, a witch hunt? Really? Thats what you think this is? I see it as someone asking an honest question about two cels that just appear that they could be fan cels. So he thought he would ask the cel community, who would have a pretty good idea to add opinions. Now would we all honestly waste our time posting and then adding screen shots to screw this seller over? No. Most of use even stated that the guy may not have known if they were real or not when he bought them.

What we are trying to do here is not hurt the seller, but protect the buyers. I know I would want to be told if something I was purchasing for $800+ might be a fan cel. So say his weren't, fine, thats why we discussed it.

Now I contacted the seller, but only to ask if he had more photos considering I couldn't get a real good feel to how they looked. He never responded, I wasn't mean or convicting, I just thought I'd ask.

So before you criticize a community on a forum you just joined, how about you realize we try to help each other out and not degrade comments.

Ronin · Post by **Ronin** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:54 pm

This does sound like a bit of a witch hunt to me (although I know the thread was not opened with the intention of this), a few comments seem to bring in other things which are unrelated (although there are a lot of constructive comments too), just because he may be trying to sell a few cels (some which may or may not be fancels...which again he may or may not be aware of) just because one of his cels may possibly be a fancel it does not necessarily mean all of his cels he his selling are fancels.

Also just because one of his cels he listed up as Berserk (which might be or might not be not in Berserk...and again he may or may not be aware of this) people are labelling him as dodgy.

Just because he is selling a few bootleg DVDs (again which he may or may not be aware of this) does not mean his cels are fake...

I mean in regards to the Griffith cel...I've never seen a fancel of such an undesirable shot...but saying that I'm not gonna 100% say it's absolutely genuine.

I mean does this auction of his look like a fancel to you??

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tenchi-Muyo-Origina ... dZViewItem

To me, it doesn’t look like a fancel, but that isn’t going to cloud my judgement on all the cels he is selling as they are unrelated...

As to what I think of the SS4 cels, it’s tough, I think your suspicions on the first one may be true, although the second looks very similar to the screen cap…its really hard to say though…

So before labelling this seller as a scammer, just sit back and remember it may or may not be intention to fool us. And you know it could quite easily be one of us lot who may be trying to sell one of our cels in the future which could quite possibly be fake and we may not know it.

abclancy26 · Post by **abclancy26** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:07 pm

Dont get me wrong, i dont know the ins and outs of the matter, i only say what i see. From an outsiders point of view this does seem odd that alot of people are jumping on the band wagon without gaining all the facts. I too would like to know if i were buying a fan cel, and i appreciate forums like this for doing so. But on the other hand i cant help but feel this in inappropriate for you and others to slander the sellers name. And im sure that is what has happened, intentionally or not. Saying one or two of the sellers cels are fan made, will automatically make peoples minds up, i mean the guys on sold 1 expensive cel?

Im also sure the seller will contact you as they contacted me almost right away. If you hear their side of the story, you may have a better understanding of whats happing here.

Also, i may be a newbie here, but like ive said on previous posts, I was an avid anime cel collector for quite a number of years, and have had my own issues with certain cels, so i fell my points are valid and justified.

This is my opinion, of which im entitled too, as are you, and every other person on this forum.

DragonballZSubzero · Post by **DragonballZSubzero** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:08 pm

Yeah, thats exactly what I was saying in my comments towards the beginning of this thread. Just because these appear to be fan cels doesn't mean that the rest of his cels are the same. I made that quite clear, so that I wouldn't single him out as a seller who tries to rip you off.

The only thing I was trying to get across in the last post is not to label this thread and the comments in it as people who are trying to blacklist this seller. But pointing out POSSIBLE fan cels when priced like that and selling bootleg DVDs (which I didn't even notice until metheus pointed it out) is something we would think anyone would like to be made aware of.

So as far as I know all his sales are legit, I really only have the background to comment on the DBZ cels, which I did. So I do apologize if I came off as trying to regard this seller as a scammer, I just thought people would like to be cautioned.

Gonzai · Post by **Gonzai** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:09 pm

I realize everyone has their own opinions, and
I have no problem with that, however, if this
thread starts to get heated, I will move it to the
speakeasy. Just forewarning ya'all.

abclancy26 · Post by **abclancy26** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:10 pm

Thankyou Ronin, someone with some understanding and a clear view of whats happening here.

klet · Post by **klet** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:52 am

I don't collect or watch any DB, so my comments aren't "jealous" ones, but I have to say that even without the screencaps provided in this thread, those DBZ cels just don't look right. The Berserk cel that I managed to see before he ended the auction and took down the scan as well as the Tenchi cel that Ronin pointed out both looked real, however (I have never seen either of those shows, either). I can't say for certain, but that's my opinion based on my own experiences in buying and selling cels. There's something about the DBZ ones that just look a tad "off." Like they're too perfect, and new. Of course, on the other hand, both cels have paint extending beyond the screencaps, which means that if they are fancels, they were painted based off the actual cels or based off a scan of the actual cel.

Not that it has much to do with the authenticity of the cels, but I highly doubt that the seller doesn't realize he's selling bootleg DVDs. I mean, when I started watching anime (back when I had only seen Pokemon and Cardcaptors; not to be confused with Cardcaptor Sakura

) I bought some bootlegs, and even then I knew they were fake. I was only fifteen or sixteen at the time, and my anime experience was next to nill. If I knew as a consumer, he should know as a distributor. I think the only reason this fact was brought up was because it proves that he does not mind dealing in shady merchandise.

Considering the real cels he was selling, though, I don't think that he realized that his DBZ cels are fake (if they are).

abclancy26 wrote:And the comment above is null and void, and absolutly pathetic.

It's true that the authenticity of his DVDs has little to do with the authenticity of his cels, but I think the latter part of that statement was uncalled for.

Strictly-Dragonball · Post by **Strictly-Dragonball** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:12 am

Well sorry guys, my fault. I didn't expect this thread to cause any trouble and I know nobody is arguing but some people may feel their thoughts are not valid and I will close this if you want. But abclancy26 I think you may just have got the wrong idea from some people and theres nothing wrong in that. I didn't start this to try and insult the seller just wanted to cation people because in the heat of the moment you can buy a cel from e-Bay in disbelief it has appeared thinking it's too good to be true, then realising after the adrenaline stopped and hearing from other collector's it was too good to be true and it's likely it's a fan cel. It's better to cation before than after. I know if I didn't already have my dream Gogeta cel (thank you so much again Jose

), I would have bought one of them instantly, authenticity wouldn't have entered my mind until after the money is sent so that's why I started this thread. I said the seller has great feedback and seems to be in the business himself and probably bought them as originals and thinking they were if they are not. I know my e-Mail was considerate and I think DBZ Subzero would have done the same. The nasty ones may not have been from this community as I haven't met anyone I would imagine to be nasty to someone else so please don't judge the people on this forum. They are very helpful and pleasant to talk to, it took me two years to get my dream cel and I wouldn't have it without countless people's support all from this forum. Accusing some of being 'jealous' seems un-necessary. The collections on here are mind blowing, you say yourself buying a Gogeta at $800 is hard to do but the guy on here who you have talked to has two. Two! That's great so if anything I am jealous of his collection, not the two cels on eBay lol.

wuchild1 · Post by **wuchild1** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:40 am

I'm not exactly sure how the post became so abrasive either. Someone asked for opinions about some cels, and we gave them. I believe for the most part that everyone involved in this discussion looked objectively at the facts/information given and made their own decisions. No one is jealous, or going on a witch hunt. We collectively came to a similar conclusion, and we wanted to share that with others, that is all. I agree with most of what people are saying, that the DBZ cels questionable. The color, shading, and markings didn't seem consistent with our knowledge and past experiences in buying cels. I researched the sellers selling background only to see if they had previously sold high end cels such as these, which I found no evidence of. Ebay isn't the most honest place to shop, as is the internet in general. I'm sure we've all been ripped off at some point or another, and given the high prices of the items in question, it is very logical to question their origins. Some people made good points about the other cels the seller had not necessarily being fraudulent. Their arguments make sense, because who would bother faking "low quality" cels. Had the auction continued for the Griffith cel, and not gone too high, I probably would have bid on it anyway. I never wanted to personally tarnish the sellers character because he did have a high feedback rating, with negative feedback only from those "trouble" buyers that most of us have probably dealt with too. I can't necessarily speak for everyone, but I will assume that we as both sellers and buyers of anime goods, had some concerns, discussed them, and wanted to share them with all the other parties involved. Nothing more, nothing less. I find it disgraceful that he received unwarranted harassment about this issue, probably from others who could have most likely benefited from our discussion. At the risk of running on and ranting about this subject, I'll just end it at that.

xKAKASHIx · Post by **xKAKASHIx** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:39 pm

abclancy26 wrote: And the comment above is null and void, and absolutly pathetic.

I think the comment is completely justified...if people are questioning things to be authentic see what the seller has sold in the past and if he sells bootlegs or whatever there is a higher likelihood some of his other stuff is fake as well....especially if other people are saying the same thing.

ABC you also said that he was being barraged by emails....if you were the seller and had nothing to hide why would you cancel the auctions...especially when its a high end cel...with a high end pricetag....i would expect alot of questions and be obliged to answer any questions and support my answers with proof.

I say people are giving the seller too much credit he knows he sells bootlegs (is naruto shippuden is not even released on dvd) and most likely sells fancels...no matter how good they are.

EternityOfPain · Post by **EternityOfPain** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:56 pm

Let darkness be greeted by the warmth of sunlight in a never ending swirl of volcanic flames.

That aside, I could care less if its real or a fancel. Just my 2 cents.
Its real

xKAKASHIx · Post by **xKAKASHIx** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:01 pm

EternityOfPain wrote:Let darkness be greeted by the warmth of sunlight in a never ending swirl of volcanic flames.

That aside, I could care less if its real or a fancel. Just my 2 cents.
Its real

If we put everyones 2 cents together maybe we can email the guy and see if we can buy it and send it to a lab get some tests on it and in 4-8 weeks get the results!

The noobs a witch BURN HIM BURN HIM**!...adapted from a quote from Home movies and Coach Mcguirk

**the noob isnt a REAL witch just an.....ah nm

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:37 pm

abclancy26 wrote:I just contacted the ebay seller, as i thought id get another opinion. Now it seems the seller is ending the cels as they have received numerous spiteful and somewhat nasty emails regarding this matter! I think this is ridiculous.

And the comment above is null and void, and absolutly pathetic.

It seems that rubbish fan cels being sold ebay have tarnished the reputation of genuine cel collectors and sellers like the person in question.

As i said before, the term 'witch hunt' comes to mind, and now it seems various people are looking to ruin the reputation of the ebay seller, out of jealousy, which is very silly indeed.

How do you know the seller? All I've heard are spiteful comment on your side about "various people... looking to ruin the reputation... out of Jealousy?"

Not to mention you joined like yesterday. If you have nothing nice to say then keep to yourself.

Those DBZ cels are fake if it's an A1 End Cel. The paint doesn't match AT ALL.

DragonballZSubzero · Post by **DragonballZSubzero** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:22 pm

Thank you all. I was starting to feel like I was somehow out of line with all this. I just think the entire community needs to be made aware of a seller like this.

Most people (especially online) are judged by their past, so further down the road if this sellers has something else up for sale, this should be remembered. Right now it really only effects us who collect DBZ cels, since they were the only ones who looked suspicious, but others COULD follow.