Problems with cel is missing, what should I do?

ginga123 · Post by **ginga123** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:58 pm

yeah, i would do both. it seems fishy.

Drac of the Sharp Smiles · Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:54 am

Moop wrote: I opened a dispute - and PayPal's final word was:

Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund.

Had they told me that, I would have come back to them with an answer of: We ARE addressing the shipment of the goods. The shipment of the goods didn't happen since they're not in the box that was shipped and I didn't order a box.

But I agree with other sentiments here.... unless I know the seller (or buyer, for receiving payments) well, I avoid Paypal. That's also the reason I refuse to sell on Ebay anymore either -- because they won't allow sellers to ask for non-Paypal payments and I refuse to accept Paypal for any signifigant amount of money from a stranger. Why do I want the headache of wondering if some dick is going to pretend they didn't get the package and fraudulently reverse the charges?

Moop · Post by **Moop** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:15 am

Drac of the Sharp Smiles wrote:Had they told me that, I would have come back to them with an answer of: We ARE addressing the shipment of the goods. The shipment of the goods didn't happen since they're not in the box that was shipped and I didn't order a box.

That would presuppose that they care about the truth, which apparently they don't; it's easiest to find in favor of the the person who gives them a percentage of the take. The total sum that I lost was only about $15, or I might have pursued it more vehemently - but the entire event was definitely a lesson learned: there is a huge conflict of interest involved, so PayPal can't be trusted with my money or anyone else's, period. Still, I sincerely hope that they will take it more seriously in a situation like Kata's, where a larger sum of money was involved.

Kata · Post by **Kata** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:47 pm

cutiebunny wrote:It's the same thing. If I recall correctly, when you file with Paypal, it asks you what is wrong(ie. wrong item, item description different from what was received, etc.) and you give them the reason.

If you purchased the items through E-bay, you can also file a dispute through them as well.

Just a heads up - my experience with Paypal and their dispute service is that it is slow. The one instance that I was involved in(as the seller) took about 2 months to complete. Paypal will want all documentation including your pictures, so make sure you keep everything until a decision has been rendered. Keep the box, keep the packaging and take some better pictures of the one cel that you did receive so that you can show Paypal that there was significant damage to the one cel that you did receive and that this damage was not stated in the auction listing.

Due to the issues I've had with buyers and Paypal, when I sell an item, I take several pictures of the item prior to sending it. That way, I can show that these items were a certain condition when they left.

Thank you Cutiebunny! I went through eBay but it did automatically go to paypal and I had to do the dispute through them. I think they are "one" now when it comes to dispute. But not sure! I did go on eBay clicked on their pages for dispute and it sent me directly to paypal. @_@

I keep everything just incase (package, images, packing material etc) I will take some better pictures of the cel.

I sold on eBay and I always have several scans of the items. I haven't taken a pic of the package and items themselfes yet. I guess I should start doing that, too! I never had a problem since I pack my cels and sketches very good and even write on the package "Artwork" "Do not bend" and "Fragile" all around it actually. This package didn't have any of that.

Kata · Post by **Kata** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:48 pm

Belldandy16 wrote:Id contact DHL and ask them their policy. you never know if this guy doesnt actually know the policy himself or not. Like with the post office, if an item is damaged in transit theyll pay for it.
Contact DHL and ask them.

good luck with your dispute!

DHL I would have to call the one in Europe to find out exactly how their policy is over there. @_@

Kata · Post by **Kata** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:52 pm

momo wrote:Wow, that's not nice if the seller really did not send you the second cel. Concur with other comments you should file a paypal claim. Since you insured it the onus is on them to prove they packed and shipped both. Maybe this seller really did forget. Have you asked them to check for you?

Worse case scenario please let us know the seller so others do not experience your hardship. Good luck and please keep us posted.

I don't know if he sent the cel or not. All I know is that it didn't arrive here. >_< The package does not look like it was tampered with though. It's very weird this situation! The seller was very good with communication during and after the auctions I won, but when I contacted with this problem he seemed to not care and it seemed he wanted me to deal with the problem.

I thought that wasn't nice!
My first idea of it all was that he might of sent it with another cel to somebody else that won a auction at the same time. Mistakes can happen, but then he straight said that it had to be opened on the way here and such and didn't make any attempt to figure out what could of happened. He seemed nice until the point of when there was the cel missing. *sigh*

Kata · Post by **Kata** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Moop wrote:One of the primary reasons I stopped using PayPal whenever possible was the result of a situation similar to yours. I ordered several items from an online store, and when I received the box, two of them were missing. The store didn't answer any emails, so I opened a dispute - and PayPal's final word was:

Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund.

In other words, a box was shipped, so they were happy. What kind of buyer protection is that? I don't want to be a total purveyor of doom, though; perhaps their policy has changed since this happened to me a few months ago...? But to protect yourself, I would tackle the problem from every avenue that is open to you - i.e., eBay, your credit card company if you paid with one, and definitely the PO, which frowns heavily on mail fraud.

At any rate, I wish you the best of luck! It can really leave an unpleasant pall on one's feeling about collecting when something like this happens.

I dislike using paypal only due to that I'm always worried about problems like this could happen. But I still use paypal. The seller has 100% feedback on eBay and seemed very nice and had very good communication. Until this happend with the missing cel then he became very odd. communication was still good, but he seemed to "push" everything on me for me to deal with the problem myself. I'm the buyer I thought that the seller is more responsible for trying to find out what could of happend?!? And he said that insurance only covers the missing package and not item inside. @_@ Which I think is weird! Regardless, I would like the cel, but to stay in the right me as the buyer should get the money back since I didn't receive the item.

To me sounds like that the buyer protection isn't of any use really. I'm surprised reading what you received from paypal. @_@ Makes someone really wonder if it's worth it to have that.

Kata · Post by **Kata** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:58 pm

JWR wrote:I would also open an ebay case (paypal & ebay claims are not the same) File it as "Item recieved not as described" and expalin you paid for 2 cels (give auction numbers) seller claims they shipped both auctions in same box only 1 item was found inside box.

Joe I went through eBay and they automatically forwarded me to paypal for to open a dispute. I did mention within the dispute that I didn't get the cel. I paid for both auctions separate and not together since they didn't run at the same time.
The seller seemed nice until to the part when there was the missing cel.

Kata · Post by **Kata** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:00 pm

Drac of the Sharp Smiles wrote: That's also the reason I refuse to sell on Ebay anymore either -- because they won't allow sellers to ask for non-Paypal payments and I refuse to accept Paypal for any signifigant amount of money from a stranger. Why do I want the headache of wondering if some dick is going to pretend they didn't get the package and fraudulently reverse the charges?

Hold on, I guess I missed something. So sellers on eBay have to accept paypal now? @_@

Kata · Post by **Kata** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:01 pm

Moop wrote: I sincerely hope that they will take it more seriously in a situation like Kata's, where a larger sum of money was involved.

Moop, the amount wasn't that bad, but the fact remains that the cel didn't arrive. I would like to still get the cel, but since I didn't receive the cel I want my money back somehow.

Belldandy16 · Post by **Belldandy16** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:12 pm

Kata wrote:
Hold on, I guess I missed something. So sellers on eBay have to accept paypal now? @_@

Buyers AND sellers both!

They do that so itll pile up the fee's (they say they do it for both parties "protection" but from what ive heard when someone can just reverse the paypal payments, thats totally fishy).
when i sold ten items on ebay just recently (mind you, almost all were under $25 that i sold them for and the one that sold the highest was just $70), i had $40 in fees!!!!

so im never selling on ebay again.

Kata · Post by **Kata** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:48 pm

Belldandy16 wrote: Buyers AND sellers both! They do that so itll pile up the fee's (they say they do it for both parties "protection" but from what ive heard when someone can just reverse the paypal payments, thats totally fishy).
when i sold ten items on ebay just recently (mind you, almost all were under $25 that i sold them for and the one that sold the highest was just $70), i had $40 in fees!!!!
so im never selling on ebay again.

woah $40 in fee's? @_@ That's a lot! That makes you think twice about selling on eBay. Sadly some things are better sold on eBay since more people check there then on here on Anime-Beta!

ginga123 · Post by **ginga123** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:39 pm

call their !@&%$. and, don't take no for an answer. this is clearly fraud-- they'll have to give your money back. you need to file a fraud claim with them over the phone, and i heard they will resist, but keep pressing them for it and they'll file it.

Belldandy16 · Post by **Belldandy16** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:47 pm

Kata wrote: DHL I would have to call the one in Europe to find out exactly how their policy is over there. @_@

but wait, arent they an international company?
there must be an office here in america you can contact.

Kata · Post by **Kata** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:57 pm

Just an update!

The eBay seller wasn't to happy, but the paypal dispute was closed and he paid me back for the missing cel yesterday.

As I said he was really good with communication and was nice until there was the missing cel.

Lets hope this doesn't happen again.

I'm disappointed a bit since I didn't get the cel that I had won on eBay.
I did add it to my "missing in action" section on RS and maybe somebody finds it.

Thank you all for your help in this matter.