Anime-Haven -Outbidding Collectors on YJ to Sell on Ebay @*&

[wELCOME cONSUMER]

I also dislike sellers who photoshop their cels, but that's another story.

What do you mean WC?

When sellers use photoshop to clean up their cels, removing blemishes from their cels and zooming in to make the image seem larger. I've learned my lesson about sellers who crop sequence information and I've also made a habit of looking for the scene in the anime to see what it originally looked like.

I purchased a cel with a very noticeable blemish that was digitally removed by the seller. So, the image on their site did not match what I received. I emailed them about this, not asking for a refund, but asking why they would manipulate the image and make it look better than it really was. No response. Big surprise.

A collector who photoshops is not a problem. I do that myself because I like cels to look their best. But to photoshop an item that's for sale is just plain wrong and irresponsible. It's a form of fraud, depending on exactly how altered the image is from the original cel. I, for one, like to know what I'm buying.

[vapalla]

Moop wrote:

this topic was an 'I'll NEVER buy from A-H because they're vile' sort of thing. I'm just trying to point out that if Link isn't, then neither are they.

I perfectly agree. While it was just a venting thread, and I can understand the emotion behind it, in the end, there are far worse things in life. No point in demonizing people who are mostly harmless compared to the big picture!

I think you can pretty much count on the fact that if the description doesn't specifically state "matching", then it isn't.

I prefer Asylum's method. If there is something thrown behind the cel, it means nothing unless the description mentions it, and the the description will say "matching background" or "copy matching background". Curt even sold me a cel that had a copy matching background, but since he wasn't sure, he told me he couldn't verify it. It would be a bummer buying something that's really expensive from a dealer and you conclude it is worth the high price because it has the background, only to find out the background wasn't original.

wELCOME cONSUMER wrote:

to photoshop an item that's for sale is just plain wrong and irresponsible. It's a form of fraud, depending on exactly how altered the image is from the original cel. I, for one, like to know what I'm buying.

That sucks and I agree.

[iwakuralain16]

I prefer Asylum's method. If there is something thrown behind the cel, it means nothing unless the description mentions it, and the the description will say "matching background" or "copy matching background". Curt even sold me a cel that had a copy matching background, but since he wasn't sure, he told me he couldn't verify it. It would be a bummer buying something that's really expensive from a dealer and you conclude it is worth the high price because it has the background, only to find out the background wasn't original.

Yeah!!! I bought a cel from Asylum and Curt also told me that the background was huge compared to the cel and he thought they might have used it for another scene. When I got the cel I looked on the back and it had scene numbers that matched the copied layout sketches from other scenes. They used the background for 4 other scenes and including for the cel I got. Now I want to try to find the other cels so I can have all of them with one matching background. Haha


Yeah I know there are worse things out there. I now have a personal beef with that ebay member. This will teach me to put such a low bid and not get up in time to bid again. hahaha

[cutiebunny]

Since I collect an anime which has a large cel collecting fanbase, in my opinion, Anime-link's prices are somewhat cheaper than the same item would be on YJ.

Yes, Link's prices are expensive. But so are bidwars. Most Sailormoon cel auctions on YJ remind me of the US Civil War - with Rinkya vying for the goods against the unstoppable SMJ bidding service(ocassionally celga gets in the action, but not often). An item that might have fetched $800 might end at $1200 because of a bidwar...and this is before deputy fees have been attached.

Because of the competition I find on YJ for cels, in some cases, Link is quite a bit cheaper than YJ.

[Ms. Poe]

Anime Link is able to get some incredible stuff...But at an incredible price to you. Some things are worth it though, and a lot of stuff sells for that much or more behind the curtains...That's why the prices are so high. There's ppl paying those prices.

I think they'd sell more if they took pymnt plans, but those aren't for everyone...

As far as AH goes...I don't understand why they try and sell things at the same price over and over again if it doesn't sell the first time...But...That's their business. I just don't even look at their auctions anymore b/c the prices they're asking for the product aren't exactly "market value".

[wELCOME cONSUMER]

Since I collect an anime which has a large cel collecting fanbase, in my opinion, Anime-link's prices are somewhat cheaper than the same item would be on YJ.

Yes, Link's prices are expensive. But so are bidwars. Most Sailormoon cel auctions on YJ remind me of the US Civil War - with Rinkya vying for the goods against the unstoppable SMJ bidding service(ocassionally celga gets in the action, but not often). An item that might have fetched $800 might end at $1200 because of a bidwar...and this is before deputy fees have been attached.

Because of the competition I find on YJ for cels, in some cases, Link is quite a bit cheaper than YJ.

I see what you mean, but why doesn't Link have more turn over? If what you say is true, more of his cels on display, especially in the SM section, would say "SOLD." I can vouch that he asks waaaay too much for the cels from series I collect. About three times as much as what they go for on YJ.

Some of Link's items are high end and worth what he's asking. But not everything and that's part of the problem. It's the inflated prices on the lower end items that bothers me most. Not everything is worth a three or four digit price tag, but he sure seems to think so. If a cel has been on display for a long time, the price should gradually deflate. Maybe take off $10 per year it's posted or something.

[SME]

I see what you mean, but why doesn't Link have more turn over? If what you say is true, more of his cels on display, especially in the SM section, would say "SOLD." I can vouch that he asks waaaay too much for the cels from series I collect. About three times as much as what they go for on YJ.

I agree with you there. SM does have a huge fanbase, but the insane prices on most of the cels are because for some reason, there are those that are willing to pay that price, thus keeping the prices up. And Rick knows this...that's why the prices remain as high as they have been.

I've seen a few cels I'd like to have, but waited patiently for a sequence to show up. Not only do I get it for a lot cheaper than the initial person, but it shows that if most didn't jump and "get that cel b/c I have to have it and I can pay that money," then we'd might see the prices on dealer sites more reasonable and more market-value. But that won't happen because there are those that buy it at that high price, so the dealers know that if people are willing to buy it that high, then they can keep the prices up and get more profit. It's all about money.

I know this for sure, because I have quite a few cels that I've seen sequence mates paid for two-five times as much as I've gotten my shot for. Yes, there are some high end cels that will be worth more than others, but not a huge jack-up of hundreds of dollars (to even the thousands) for pretty much the same set-up.

Patience comes in real handy at these times...and the cels I've bought from Anime-Link were when I thought they were at an actual reasonable market price.

[wELCOME cONSUMER]

Patience comes in real handy at these times...and the cels I've bought from Anime-Link were when I thought they were at the actual reasonable market price.

This is crucial. Collectors paying what they think is a reasonable price keeps the market fair.

[Caroline]

Stealing away cels from someone who is an actual collector to just to turn around and sell them on ebay. Has anyone else had this happen to them??? >_>

yes, this ebay seller has bid on items i tried to sell on YJ... only to repost them for WAY more on ebay later. it made me sad to think my cels went to someone who didn't care for them...

as for photoshoping images, i feel the same way as WC. i have cropped my cels if they include a BG... but i'm always honest about a cel when it comes to selling.

[bran-chan]

Anime Link's prices are quite intimidating, that's why I had never bought from them before. But with the sale that they're having I decided to go for one of the cels that I had my eye on for awhile. It dropped the price into the range of what I considered acceptable.

[Keropi]

I've bought from Anime Wink/Anime Link before, but that was way back when I was collecting more mainstream stuff (Maison Ikkoku and Video Girl Ai).

He has always basically had stuff from anime that came out in English in the past or currently (English release titles). So I've learned that there's really no reason for me to check his site any more.

No harm. No foul. He just doesn't have anything from any anime I've been trying to collect in the past five years.

[Nelia]

A bit late hopping on the comment wagon, but I hope I can add my two cents. (edit) sorry I hit "new topic" accidentally. ^^"

What's atrocious was a time I was bidding on a Belldandy cel a year or so ago on Y!J, and I mean, this was WAR. Price went to over 400, there were about 30 bids, and I finally threw in the towel. What happened?

That bidder ended up turning around, and hocked the cel on his sales page for $850 the DAY he got it from Japan. What on earth happened? I guess he did it because he knew there was someone here in the states (ie: me) who wanted this cel, and wanted it bad. I guess in his eyes he could make a pretty penny off of me - but I absolutely didn't buy it. It dropped to seven hundred. Six hundred. Five. Four - and then he started going into the negatives, and it ended up selling on ebay for a little over two hundred bucks. Remind you - he paid probably 550-600 including fees for it. So I sat back and enjoyed the show. ^^
I was really lucky on the AnC front - I've always admired Watase, and I hopped on Y!J when I had some extra cash and decided to see how much the cels were and was stunned at how cheap they were! 0_0 I won two Tooya cels and I couldn't be happier - they're absolutely gorgeous. And I only paid about $100 for the both of them after fees. ^^

But yeah, I think the cel market is way inflated. There's folks out there who may buy that perfect shot of XXX main character for $500. Yeah, it was expensive, and they'll keep it for a while. But then they turn around and go "Well, I know I only paid 500 for it, but it's worth $2,500 and that's how much I'm selling it for."

I don't know what my opinion is on the whole thing quite yet - it's definetly wrong and unfair to outbid someone else simply to re-sell the cel here in the states, but I've seen cels go on Y!J for next to nothing, and a seller buy it and bring it over here to re-sell and it actually make a pretty penny. Then again, that's not really fair either.

But yeah, you can't control the cel market. As much as we all would like to get that perfect shot of Julia from Bebop for $500. *twitch*

And I know Sletia's had to deal with the infamous 'bid on everything relentlessly although they already have 5 cels from that same, very rare sequence in their gallery' ( ). But that's another case in itself, kwehe.

[cutiebunny]

I see what you mean, but why doesn't Link have more turn over? If what you say is true, more of his cels on display, especially in the SM section, would say "SOLD." I can vouch that he asks waaaay too much for the cels from series I collect. About three times as much as what they go for on YJ.

Because there is a big difference between what high and low end collector will pay.

As with most animes with a large fan base, there are all sorts of different collectors out there. While the majority of collectors are those that tend to purchase either "generic" cels(in this case, a cel that is difficult to place because the character is always in that particular outfit/pose/etc.) or cels that are later in the sequence than the A1key set-up(either due to cost or rariety), there are always a handful of collectors that will collect only the best of the best - cels with matching backgrounds, douga/genga, full layout, A1end/key/book sequence shots. They actively search dealer sites, YJ, Mandarake, etc. looking for that one particular shot that perfectly shows the character or the scene. They will not purchase anything less than "perfect".

Because these "perfect" shots are limited and there are a handful of active high end collectors looking for these sequences, there is a huge gap in prices between these types of cels and those that might be more generic. Take a look at the recent Mandarake BWA and the Inuyasha cel that ended at around 220,000 yen. If all you want are cels from Inuyasha, you can purchase them on E-bay for $20. But, if you want the perfect set-up, then, you're going to compete with several other collectors who are more than willing to spend high amounts to acquire the same thing.

This is why, in the case of SM, IY, CCS, etc. why certain shots immediately sell on a dealer's website while others will stay on there for months. For a high end collector, a dealer who has the high end cel that you want is offering you a bargain because, not only is there a higher liklihood that you'll be able to purchase the item, but there's no hidden bidwar fees. However, for most collectors out there, a dealer's website prices are unrealistic and the only way for a dealer to sell items that did not appeal to the high-end collector is to offer them at a deeply discounted price.

I realize that what I just wrote may offend some collectors as I appear to be "type-casting" them, but, this is merely based on my observations and is in no way meant to offend anyone.

[Nelia]

This is why, in the case of SM, IY, CCS, etc. why certain shots immediately sell on a dealer's website while others will stay on there for months. For a high end collector, a dealer who has the high end cel that you want is offering you a bargain because, not only is there a higher liklihood that you'll be able to purchase the item, but there's no hidden bidwar fees. However, for most collectors out there, a dealer's website prices are unrealistic and the only way for a dealer to sell items that did not appeal to the high-end collector is to offer them at a deeply discounted price.

Oh, man, like that gorgeous shot of Chibi Usa reaching out in the white moon dress that just dropped on Y!J - what was the final price? Last I saw it was about $1500, and the winning bider at the time was a Chaos Jpn bidder.

[cutiebunny]

Oh, man, like that gorgeous shot of Chibi Usa reaching out in the white moon dress that just dropped on Y!J - what was the final price? Last I saw it was about $1500, and the winning bider at the time was a Chaos Jpn bidder.

211,000 yen. For a shot like that, the price was well worth it.

Lately, a lot of really nice Sailormoon cels have been placed on auction by the same seller. All of those auctions have ended at the 1K and above range.