Anime-Haven -Outbidding Collectors on YJ to Sell on Ebay @*&

[Moop]

For a high end collector, a dealer who has the high end cel that you want is offering you a bargain because, not only is there a higher liklihood that you'll be able to purchase the item, but there's no hidden bidwar fees. However, for most collectors out there, a dealer's website prices are unrealistic and the only way for a dealer to sell items that did not appeal to the high-end collector is to offer them at a deeply discounted price.

I think that you might have misunderstood the original discussion. The issue was overblown markup of the dealer's purchase price, as opposed to mulling over what a potential end-of-bid-war price might be, and deciding in light of that that "it's a bargain".

[cutiebunny]

I think that you might have misunderstood the original discussion. The issue was overblown markup of the dealer's purchase price, as opposed to mulling over what a potential end-of-bid-war price might be, and deciding in light of that that "it's a bargain".

I understood the discussion and addressed it in the first post where I cited that, for certain collectors of more popular animes, dealer mark-ups are, in many cases, cheaper than what one would pay on Japanese auctions sites.

The post that you cited was directed towards WC's comment concerning why more items on Link's site were not marked as sold. I offered an explaination as to why most of these items will remain unsold unless a deep discount is offered.

I am, in no way, supporting the practice of outbidding to resell at a higher price. While "reasonable" profit is understandable, marking up an item 3-5x what the market rate is and then offering a "sale" is rather distasteful. However, in Link's case, many of the items that he sells are things purchased from non-YJ/Mandarake sources. The mark-up, then, is a payment for his ability to network and import goods that you and I could not normally find. While it may not be the case for every collector out there, for me, if he had a super wishlist cel that I know I'll never find anywhere else, a few hundred dollar mark-up is nothing compared to the enjoyment I'll have from owning that cel.

[Moop]

The post that you cited was directed towards WC's comment concerning why more items on Link's site were not marked as sold.

The two are connected, which is why, I assume, she made the comment in the first place. My point, whether you agree or not, is that when a dealer buys a cel for 50,000 and then sells it for 250,000, it's not a bargain... no matter what price fans might have forced it up to on YJ. Networking is great, but I own one cel that I purchased from another dealer for $600 - the sequence mate of which was on his site for $1.2k. Frankly, I prefer the other dealer's networking fee.

[RoboFlonne]

This thread is really depressing...

And I'm the optimistic type!

The Reason We collect Cels is because we love cels! We love the anime and all the characters that makes it all worthwhile! If cels are going to make us hate other people for just trying to make a living... then it's not worthwhile!

I used to be just as angry as you guys Nelia, Valerie, Toni!

It was about 10 years ago. I was 12 and Beanie babies were the best thing to happen since Strawberry cheesecake!

Everyone loved them and brought them to school. Grandmothers would have them to give their grand children! I had princess Di's Lavender and Lily bear, I had the tie-dye Peace bear and even that really pretty irridescent Unicorn! OMG! I can't remember the irridescent horn Unicorn's name!

I still have like all my beanie babies even though they only cost $1 on ebay now. And I still love them. But it is kind of sad, because I miss waking up at 6am to stand in line to get the ones I wanted.

I used to cry and pout that only ally the aligator was left and I'd never get the unicorn! And how everyone was Evil and horrible for selling Princess Di's Bear for $300. That outlook on the hobby, tainted my love for the beanies.

Then one day the kind lady at the gift shop told me, " Do you really want a irridescent unicorn!" If you do, why don't you go up and line up at the store everyday until you get one. Why do you think that you deserve the Unicorn more then the sellers? It just shows that your love isn't strong enough!!

That Changed my life. From that time on. I had every Teddy bear, every panda, Every velvet bunny rabbit that Ty ever made and I wanted.

I would wake up bright and early to go see if there were any new beanies!

There were actually limits of how many beanies you could buy. You can only buy 2 or 3, so other people can have some also!

It was fun and exciting! I didn't care that the stores paid only $2.50 to Russ Corporation for each one. I liked how each beanie had a poem and a birthday! It was really neat when people saw my "$300" Princess Di bear and say... wow! How pretty! I paid $5.99

Was I angry at the people who sold them for $300? No not at all.

The following reason will most likely change your minds on how evil Anime Link , Anime Haven, and Anime Museum are.

I met a guy who was a breadman. I only knew his name as bread man. He delivered bunnie bread and would stop by the gift shops who sold Beanies. And bought the Princess Di's and Strut the rooster, etc. He wasn't evil. He had a family to raise, he had a wife and a 4 year old boy. Being a bread man did not pay for the bills. He must have been in his 40's I never really asked. And I can't remember his name. I just remembered that this breadman was the person who got me my irridescent unicorn.

No matter how many mornings I woke up early before school to check if any new beanies were available, I COULD NOT find my Unicorn!

I got like 6 princess Di's though!

The breadman would run into me alot. And he was the bunny breadman who bought alot of beanies. He asked me what I was looking for. Then I told him about the perfect Irridescent Unicorn and he said he would get me one.

The thing is that The Irridescent unicorn was only released once, that's why I wouldn't find anymore in the gift shop!

I traded my princess Di for it. Actually he got me the irridescent unicorn, a regular unicorn, derby the race horse, and some other older beanies that I couldn't find.

I didn't mind that I was trading a $300 princess di for only $100 worth of beanies. I was sooo happy to get my irridescent unicorn!

For that one day the bread man was my hero!

He wasn't evil.

Until one january, the president of Russ Corporation issued a statement that said, "the secondary market of Ty beanie babies is illegal and everyone should boycott buying their items."

People started saying... the bread man is evil. I was so stupid to buy beanies. If you look on Cindy's website you'll see her statement on beanie collecting!

That boycott destroyed the beanie collecting hobby. Everyone I met told me how stupid I was. I had to spend an hour to explain that I would wake up early to get them and sometimes stood in line to get a princess di to trade the bread man for other beanies he had.

The beanies cost me $5.95. They cost Hallmark gift shop $2.50 plus shipping. They now sell for 12 for $10 on ebay.

I'm not angry. I loved the breadman.

If it wasn't for him, I would never have had the collection of beanies that I have. I have like 300 beanies.

After the boycott. The breadman disapeared. Beanies were for stupid people like me. And my love was once again tainted.

I don't want that to happen to anime collecting, so that's why I share my story.

I bet you all know a person named Stephen. From Anime-Museum. He post his pictures of his family. He's not evil even though his relizu's may cost $25 more.

It's hero's like Stephen and Anime link and anime game and Anime Haven, that we have the ability to get what we want.

If that bidder for 1100 yen was a japanese bidder. Would you possibly get that cel?

Who's more evil? the Japanese bidder or the breadman?

Valerie, you overslept... You didn't love that cel enough to wake up and bid on it.

The voice of that gift shop lady, still rings in my head.

" Do you really want a irridescent unicorn!" If you do, why don't you go up and line up at the store everyday until you get one. Why do you think that you deserve the Unicorn more then the sellers? It just shows that your love isn't strong enough!!

I'm sorry to go on and on like this. But you have to understand that cel would cost around $30 after shipping and handling from Rinkya and EBAY charges an arm and a leg. The mark up is only like double which is very very little to work on in art. Also Japanese plane tickets cost $800. and Customs destroys my stuff. I went overseas and they BREAK OPEN ALL YOUR BOXES to check/ um also Destroy and steal things. You get this little piece of paper in your luggage and boxes saying, "customs has checked your baggage." The last time I went over seas, they stole my jewelery, and other stuff... I still can't get it back.

I miss the breadman. I don't know where he went. But he was the secondary market, which is important to any hobby industry. When the boycott started, it destroyed the breadman. And it tainted my love for beanies.

God bless the breadman. He does a job no one wanted, but he made me happy... even though no one loved him.

[RoboFlonne]

As for profit margins. The Breadman made like a Twelve Thousand Percent Markup. If you really want to say that Beanies cost $2.50 then selling them at $300 is a 12,000percent markup.

The breadman isn't evil. If you've watched enough good anime, You'll know that the evil one's aren't really evil.

Examples:
Lee-san of Read or Die
Gendou of Evangelion
Sougintou of Rozen Maiden.

[redwolf]

I used to cry and pout that only ally the aligator was left and I'd never get the unicorn!

Sorry, alligators own unicorns.

It is one of the only beanie babies I own.

[Moop]

This thread is really depressing...

I get the feeling that you may be one of the majority of people who see no entertainment value in pointless debate.

[wELCOME cONSUMER]

I personally enjoy seeing people use different words to say the same thing.

[redwolf]

In my opinion, I'm rather fond of witnessing folks express the same sentiments in distinct ways.

[cutiebunny]

The two are connected, which is why, I assume, she made the comment in the first place. My point, whether you agree or not, is that when a dealer buys a cel for 50,000 and then sells it for 250,000, it's not a bargain... no matter what price fans might have forced it up to on YJ. Networking is great, but I own one cel that I purchased from another dealer for $600 - the sequence mate of which was on his site for $1.2k. Frankly, I prefer the other dealer's networking fee.

But not everyone has that luxury.

Many of these dealers have been around for years. They were buying cels when they were selling in Japan for a couple hundred yen. They've been able to acquire cels when their anime was still in production in Japan and they've held onto those cels.

If you're a new, or relatively new, collector, you're likely not to know what cels originally sold on YJ and their respective prices years before you entered the hobby. Unless someone tells you, you have no way of knowing how much someone originally paid for an item and who exactly was the winner of that cel. If a dealer has held on to that item for several years, most potential buyers will have no clue how that cel was obtainned, let alone the price that the dealer paid for it.

Let's say, using the example of the cel you previously mentioned, that all five sequence mates(A1key-A5end) were snagged and taken off the market by 2000. I began to collect in 2003 and I avidly search YJ, Mandarake, etc. every day for this one cel. This is the cel that I want most - it's my super wishlist cel, one that I think I'll never have because, after three years of searching, I've never seen it...anywhere. Then, one day, I stumble on Dealer X's site, who is offering it at 1.2K. This dealer has my wishlist, and after searching for years, 1.2K, while not being cheap, is a price I'd pay to obtain that cel. While, as I prepare to transfer payment with Paypal, I'm sure that the seller originally paid far less for that cel, the enjoyment of displaying, framing, etc. that cel is worth the high price that I'll pay for that cel.

Economics does apply to cel collecting, especially when it comes to dealers. You're going to pay the original price. You're going to pay a fee for the "convience" of them locating the cel for you and doing business with a third party in, what is likely to be, a foriegn country. You're going to pay a storage fee(since it's likely that some of these cels have been in storage for years). However, if these fees are less than or equal to the enjoyment you'll get from that piece of acetate(and you can afford it), then, by all means, you'll pay that price for the item.

This is the true "bargain" - Having a higher chance of buying that cel, regardless of mark-up, over that of other collectors. Because many cel collectors seem to have some sort of paranoia over their wishlist items being the wishlist items for other collectors, even a large mark-up fee with the promise they'll get that item may be worth it.

[wELCOME cONSUMER]

In my opinion, I'm rather fond of witnessing folks express the same sentiments in distinct ways.

You slay me.

Cutie, you're saying what we all know: cels are worth what a buyer, any buyer, is willing to pay. That's common sense as well as common knowledge. It's what dictates the market. It doesn't exactly need to be explicitly said either. No one here is stupid.

There's this thing known as a "bubble." Most anime series, probably 90% of them, have it. Cels or sketches are sold at their highest but eventually the bubble bursts. Gradually the prices decline (or even plummet) over time. Cels that would sell for $1k may eventually sell for $400 or less because their bubble has burst. Some dealers are living in the past in regards to certain series because they simply do not fetch the prices they once did.

This is becoming terribly repetitive because each post seems to say the same thing. Yes, dealers can do whatever they want and charge whatever they please. Someone may buy at those prices, several may not. That is a given. But it doesn't mean people have to agree with such practices or buy said items. Everyone is entitled to voice complaint because it is pretty crappy when someone buys a cel and posts it for sale a week later for 2x-3x the original amount.

When people brag about how much (ie - large amounts) they paid for a cel, I don't find that very impressive. When someone showboats with great pride exactly how much money they paid, I yawn. Are they trying to make others jealous? Wow, so someone is willing to fork over large amounts of their personal income on one item. Great if it makes them happy, I guess. That's not a talent or skill tho, anyone can piss away all of their money if they wanted to. It's not exactly hard. Spending money is all too easy. In fact, our consumer-driven world depends on it. Paying large amounts, insane amounts, too much, is not something to be proud of. Now, saving money, that's tricky. Holding out and being patient for a good deal is a skill, a talent, something worth noting. That takes finesse, cunning and savvy. It's like comparing hunting a chicken with a shotgun and fishing in a river. One is brute force violence with no forethought or strategy. The other requires patience, knowledge and a couple brews.


It's annoying when a cel is considered "worthless" because a collector paid a small price, compared to a sequence mate that sold for more. A cel isn't "worth" solely its price tag. Paying more doesn't equate a "better" cel. I've gotten some cels for free that were worth triple digits on the market. Just because I got it for free doesn't make it worthless. Given the option, I'd rather pay less for what I want. Hard to fathom a person who wouldn't.

[RalphVboy]

It's like comparing hunting a chicken with a shotgun and fishing in a river. One is brute force violence with no forethought or strategy. The other requires patience, knowledge and a couple brews.

I agree with you 110%. Those fishermen better start toning down the violence

<- *is proud of being a patient, knowledgeable, brew-sipping, shotgun-toting Chicken hunter*



- RalphVBoy

[wELCOME cONSUMER]

It's like comparing hunting a chicken with a shotgun and fishing in a river. One is brute force violence with no forethought or strategy. The other requires patience, knowledge and a couple brews.

I agree with you 110%. Those fishermen better start toning down the violence

<- *is proud of being a patient, knowledgeable, brew-sipping, shotgun-toting Chicken hunter*



- RalphVBoy

[ZombieBunny]

This thread is really depressing...

And I'm the optimistic type!

The Reason We collect Cels is because we love cels! We love the anime and all the characters that makes it all worthwhile! If cels are going to make us hate other people for just trying to make a living... then it's not worthwhile!

God bless the breadman. He does a job no one wanted, but he made me happy... even though no one loved him. [/b]

I agree with you. I understand while some stores or even some people mark up prices to a ridiculous amount for a piece that could easily go for half or even less than they want, this is the hobby that we love

Eventually if it is the piece that you really want, you will get it one way or another. If you know there is a piece they have priced way to high, don't buy it and wait patiently for another chance to aquire it.

This hobby is supposed to be fun and enjoyable Ignore the bad prices and focus on other pieces of lovely art that is out there!

What a lovely story by the way RoboFlonne


<-- For the Breadman

[SME]

Ignore the bad prices and focus on other pieces of lovely art that is out there!

While I may agree with you on this, I can't help but say it is rather hard to focus on those lovely pieces of art when there are those out there that are jacking up the prices to insane amounts.

Whether it be collectors and/or dealers, the only way to even think about having shots like that would either to be 1.) spend an absurd amount of money on one piece or 2.) get a fancel made of it.

For those that wish to own the original cel, that's hard to do when the prices can't stay within reasonable market-value spending.

I agree with WelcomeConsumer's statement. This hobby isn't a "who can spend the most amount of money on one piece that is better than the rest b/c I spent $$$$ -insert absurd dollar amount here - and you don't have the matching sketch, time sheet, bg, etc..." but rather if you enjoy the piece of art and do not mind patiently waiting for something similar to come along and add it to your collection. A few collectors out there seem to think that this is supposed to me a "show me who's got the best!" hobby, and I think that's ludicrous that it has to come to that. But if cels are the only thing that makes someone happy, then so be it. Don't ruin it for those that may not spend in the thousands that actually might enjoy and cherish the piece more than the person who has the deep pockets.

Actually, since this thread is getting to that sort of point, I'll be flat out serious here. I honestly have enough money in my savings to buy every cel I want out there, without worrying about putting a dent into my account. Why does that matter and why am I bothering to say it? To prove a point...even though the money is there, I have no intentions of blowing it all just so I can have everything I want. That's what keeps a smart buyer from becoming a 'braggart' buyer. I've never mentioned this before, because I never thought I needed to. (This whole paragraph is not intented to brag about anything, so please do not think of it that way).

But that's where this thread is pretty much headed. It doesn't matter if it's a collector or a dealer. Money rules everything in this world, and the only way that us collectors can deal with it (especially the dealers) is to get the cel off the site like YJ or Mandarake so that the dealer doesn't get it and mark it up 200%. I completely understand the earlier posts made about how this is happening.

Example: You want CelA and find it on YJ...you learn that someone keeps outbidding you so the price goes up to 20,000 yen. You stop and the other person wins the cel for about $275 after shipping and fees.
You visit a known dealer site a month later. You see exact same cel, same sequence number and everything with the cel. You look at the price...it reads $500. You are mad b/c you could have won that cel for $275 (or even cheaper if the dealer was the only competition), but instead there is a $225 markup.
So why, as someone mentioned earlier, should you have to pay a $225 markup if the dealer went through the same process as you did to obtain the cel? They didn't go through any 'extra' trouble to obtain it. You could have easily won it for the beginning price if it weren't for the dealer.

That was the whole point. It's not fair to see something sitting at a place you have access to bid on, and then find out you lose the cel to a dealer that didn't go through any extra hassle (especially if they themselves are using a deputy service) just to get $225 profit on that cel. No one should have to go through that for a cel that they really want, and would cherish it.

Any questions/comments/rants/raves/etc., you can PM me. I think I've pretty much said what I've needed to say here.