Scammed?!?! Need some advice... ~_~

iwakuralain16 · Post by **iwakuralain16** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:37 pm

SO I finally made it to the post office today to pick up a cel that I ordered. I got the package, took it home, opened it up... and was PISSED.

The auction was described as:
this is a must have: huge 18 inches by 22 inches ceres animatio cell, in a custom glass frame! this is an actual animation cell used in the production of the anime-a one of a kind, a true collectible-something no one else will have, dont miss out, and check out my other auctions!

I looked at it, said "okay" and bought it. Buy it now. I get it home, opened it up(I was planning on taking it out of the frame to put in my cel book) and I notice something about the Ceres part.. hmm.. that does NOT look like a cel! It is a PRINTED picture, pasted onto the original background. So which part of this really a cel? Just the kagami part.(the guy sititng in the chair)

The ONLY reaosn why I bought this, is because of the ceres part of the cel. Needless to say, I am VERY unhappy about this especially the price I paid for it.

Here is the URL
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &rd=1&rd=1

So all in all, what should I do? It is most likely my fault for not asking questions... but it said " an actual animation cell used in the production of the anime-a one of a kind". it LIED>

Also, I took the cel out of the frame,(which BTW this was a professional job), cut underneatht he tape to make sure maybe they did not paste the picture onto the background, maybe it was on the second layer to protect that actual part of the cel. NO. So now I may have even ruined any chances of getting a refund BECAUSE I opened the frame and cut some tape so I can reach the cel. GAH

I need advice... big time. I am so pissed right now!!!!

thanks everyone in advice ~_~

RX78GP02AGUNDAM · Post by **RX78GP02AGUNDAM** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:56 pm

Sounds like the stupio photocopied another Ceres cel, and shrunk it down to size. Its common to do that with backgrounds.

It was something the seller shouldve brought up, IF they knew. Some people cant tell the difference, so it may not be on purpose.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:46 pm

CERES ANIMATION CEL..

It's not a ceres Cel.

You're absolutely right!

You're covered!

I would talk with the seller and tell him that it isn't a ceres cel and it is misrepresented.

They have a choice to refund or we will have to file a credit card reversal and they have a chance of losing both the cel and the money!

If they want to play hardball, feel free to file a paypal reversal and a credit card chargeback.

klet · Post by **klet** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:00 pm

RX78GP02AGUNDAM wrote:Sounds like the stupio photocopied another Ceres cel, and shrunk it down to size. Its common to do that with backgrounds.

I'd have to agree with RX here. It sounds and looks like something that a studio would do as a kind of special effect. I'm not familiar with AnC, having only read the first half of the manga, but it looks like Cere is supposed to be on a screen or something. So, that part of the cel might have been a photocopy because of technical/lighting reasons.

More than likely, the studio left it taped against the background, so when the cel dealer got it, it was sold that way. More than likely the actual cel was sold seperately, because the studio kept it seperately.

But, yeah, the seller should have mentioned something about the condition. Of course, if the tape you took off was something that the studio or original dealer put on, there's a chance he never even knew.

That's the thing with American cel sellers. On ebay, they tend to say a lot about the cel, whereas auctions on YJ are pretty sparse in description. So, when you come across an auction on Ebay with little description, it's always best to ask questions.

graymouser · Post by **graymouser** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:13 pm

I'm a little confused. It sounds like the cel part was the man in the chair. The background was two layers. One of the wall and one of Ceres. It is not unheard of to have two separate parts to the background.

I have one background that is in five parts with three of them glued together by the studio.
http://itamejihada.net/cels/nazca/nazca2f.html

I have another that is in four separate pieces.
http://itamejihada.net/cels/esc/esc1c.html

I also have one that is supposed to be a two layered background but one layer is missing.
http://itamejihada.net/cels/fy/fy5a.html

It sounds like the seller was deceptive in that he described the cel as a Ceres cel, but the set up may still be legit. I hope you can work it out with him.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:21 pm

Ceres Background would be the description!

RX78GP02AGUNDAM · Post by **RX78GP02AGUNDAM** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:21 pm

Reading the description, I dont see anything deceptive about it. As for it saying Ceres cel, it is a Ceres cel, from the series.... Doubt theyre saying th the Ceres image is an actual cel. A Heero cel would be a Gundam cel. Even though Heero isnt a Gundam.

kymaera · Post by **kymaera** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:27 pm

RoboFlonne wrote:CERES ANIMATION CEL..

It's not a ceres Cel.

The series name is also Ceres, so that argument doesn't hold much water.
It's the same as saying "Ranma cel for sale" when the character is Shampoo.
The cel is still from Ranma.

The listing is factually correct as far as we can tell. It is a Ceres cel and it
was used in production. The only discrepancy is your expectation of what
parts of it were a cel and which actually were. As already mentioned, it
may have been a production thing. Also, you said yourself that you had to
take the frame apart in order to notice it. In either of these cases, the
seller may not have even known. From his/her history, this is the only cel
that has been sold in the last 30 days...the person may not have much
knowledge of cels.

I hate to say it, but I doubt you would have much leg to stand on in a
dispute. The listing is factually correct and you've altered (arguably
damaged) it by opening it up and removing tape from a professional
frame job. Also, professional framing jobs are not cheap....that alone is
worth somewhere around the price of the auction.

Your best bet is to contact the seller and see what they're willing to do.
From the history, you've bought from them a time or two before, so they
shouldn't think you're out to screw them over. They're not obligated to do
anything for you, but most sellers who are professional quality would try
to do something (partial refund perhaps) to keep a repeat customer
happy.

iwakuralain16 · Post by **iwakuralain16** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:08 pm

HMM....

well I have thought about it. Actually, I came home from work and got angry about the cel. I had my friend call me from my second job saying they were swamped and needed help so I just stepped away from the whole cel thing and worked out my agression at work. NOW I feel alot better about the cel, and Maybe even thinking that is how it is supposed to be. It is a over all nice peice nad has a very nice look to it. I may just hang it up somewhere for now. I don;'t like to cause trouble, especially with people on ebay. It is my fault that I didn't probe more. I think I am now content with my purchase. haha thanks everyone for your opinions and help. ^_^

wELCOME cONSUMER · Post by **wELCOME cONSUMER** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:53 pm

I'm glad you're feeling better about the transaction. I've had similar situations where the item looked much different in person. It's always annoying but it's great when you can make peace with the situation.

iwakuralain16 · Post by **iwakuralain16** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:09 am

wELCOME cONSUMER wrote:I'm glad you're feeling better about the transaction. I've had similar situations where the item looked much different in person. It's always annoying but it's great when you can make peace with the situation.

I was able to find the screen shot from the scene that the cel was from. They used the cel in the show for sure. Maybe one day I will be able to find the real cel to replace the copy with. haha we will see ^_^

RX78GP02AGUNDAM · Post by **RX78GP02AGUNDAM** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:12 am

It prob wont fit.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:58 am

Glad that you're happy now!

I personally think that if you list an item to be a Naruto cel with a BIG CENTER PHOTO of NARUTO in the VERY CENTER of the frame. It would be 100% misleading to not disclose that Naruto IS only the background.

made up auction title: NARUTO NINE TAIL NINJA ANIMATION CELL anime

made up description: huge 18 inches by 22 inches naruto animatio cell, in a custom glass frame!

I would bring reasons:

1. NARUTO is the central figure of the frame
2. No mention of other characters...
3. There is a picture of the rock lee picking his nose in the corner, which happens to be the only thing on the cel.
4. Rock Lee isn't even mentioned!
5. NARUTO's FACE is 3-5 times LARGER than Rock Lee in the corner.
6. There is no mention of a background. Leading to the belief that NARUTO is the Actual cel with 2 Layers infront which would be the wall and the guy in the corner picking his nose.
7. If I did a survey and asked 100 people if they thought:

a. Rock Lee was the cel
or b. Naruto was the cel
Would there be an overwhelming belief according to the description that the Central FIGURE who is the only thing mentioned would be the cel. Yes. 100%

If I was to bring more reasoning to paypal or my credit card company. I would be 70-80% sure that I would win.

You can argue for sellers ignorance, which falls on the burden of the seller.

Seller's ignorance isn't defendable for a misleading title and description...

If you're happy then that's fine, but If I was to complain for you, I'm sure I can get your money back, if you would like me to help!

sovereign · Post by **sovereign** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:42 am

I remember when this cel was first put on sale on a dealer site years ago. it was described as being a copy layer of ceres. so it is "legit" for all selling purposes, but not necessarily a good collectible buy. I do think the description was shoddy...sorry it happened to you!

/m