Proving authenticity

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birdie
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Proving authenticity

Post by birdie »

I have a pet peeve I want ot get off my chest and also ask other Betarians their opinons.

I have some auctions going on ebay and I get this question last night:

"Hi I was just wondering if you had more information about the sketch or how you came across it?"

I like to be polite when answering all questions, after all I ask them to ask before they bid, but this just ticked me off. :evil: My feedback isn't enough any more, now I need COAs? :roll: Maybe I'm getting thin skinned in my dotage, but 90% of what we collect doesn't come with any such thing how do we prove authenticity with out giving away all our sources?

Any suggestions of how to answer this question without sounding as peeved as I am?
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RoboFlonne
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Post by RoboFlonne »

I actually get that all the time.

So much that I now give COA's with all my auctions...

If they keep asking and don't buy, then they wouldn't have bought it even if you told them.

I would just ignore those people! Don't worry about it!

/no1 /no1
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Moop
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Post by Moop »

I've been asked that question a few times, and depending on the wording, yeah, it can be really annoying. I tell people that I would not have bought it in the first place had I not been certain of its authenticity, however, if they doubt it, then perhaps they shouldn't bid.

An experienced collector doesn't question authenticity without good reason. I have NO interest in dealing with an inexperienced, doubtful bidder who has the potential to be a real pain once the auction is over... so I have no problem with telling them in exceedingly polite terms to either trust me, shut up and bid - or get lost. :)
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Post by sensei »

Maybe I'm an academic snob, but I don't see anything wrong with the question. A COA is just a piece of paper, and I could trace one of my sketches (or one printed from the production art images on a DVD) and fill one out just as good as any of you. Autograph and fine art collectors consider provenence to be an important element to establishing an item's pedigree, and so if someone asked me, I'd gladly name my source and explain the elements that I see that demonstrate its authenticity as production art.

I sold some family autographs two years ago, and I got a number of questions from potential buyers, one asking me to look at a signature through a loupe and describe what I saw. Curious, I looked, and there, alongside the bold signature ("Charles A. Lindbergh") was a fine spray of tiny ink dots that demonstrated that the autograph had been done in a quick but incisive swish of a 1920s-style fountain pen. My answer probably meant that I made an extra $100 on the sale.

Just my 100 yen. I know it's always annoying to be implicitly accused of dishonesty, especially over an item that you're not selling for a big stack of bills.
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RoboFlonne
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Post by RoboFlonne »

I'd gladly name my source and explain the elements that I see that demonstrate its authenticity as production art.
Personally I wouldn't know how to explain the elements of it's authenticity...

Similarly to your autograph. You could duplicate it with a 1920's pen with practice.

It's a really tough question to answer for me.
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Moop
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Post by Moop »

sensei wrote:Autograph and fine art collectors consider provenence to be an important element to establishing an item's pedigree, and so if someone asked me, I'd gladly name my source and explain the elements that I see that demonstrate its authenticity as production art.
Sadly, eBay and academia are worlds apart. While it may be satisfying to educate the uninitiated in a classroom or some other worthy forum, on eBay they have a tendency to turn around and bite you on the virtual butt... no matter how far backward you bend on their behalf. Not that I've become jaded through unpleasant experience, or anything. Nope. Not I. :x
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Post by cutiebunny »

Maybe I'm the only one who's wondering who will authenticate it...? Last time I watched the "Antiques Roadshow", there weren't a plethora of fanboys squeeling with delight over a naked Ryoko cel.

But, since "anime" is a relatively new concept in Mainstream America, I would think that finding appraisers here would be difficult. For insurance purposes, I could easily tell how much I paid and how much I think the item is worth, but, the price of art varies from collector to collector, so solidifying a price, in addition to its "authenticity", would be difficult in the US.

Does anyone know of any dealers that will authenticate anime art? I've never heard of any anime collector having their art authenticated with a COA(other than the ones for Tenchi Muyo, etc. that were stamped onto cels/sketches post-production).
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sensei
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Post by sensei »

Moop wrote: Sadly, eBay and academia are worlds apart. While it may be satisfying to educate the uninitiated in a classroom or some other worthy forum, on eBay they have a tendency to turn around and bite you on the virtual butt... no matter how far backward you bend on their behalf.
Nah, they do that in the classroom, too. But I hearya, I hearya. My last experiences selling on eBay were none too pleasant either. But, both in the classroom and online, I figure there's no reason to join the herd and let the illegitimi crudi make you into clones of themselves. Every so often someone notices.

We had a carpenter over last year repairing a patio door that had turned leaky because a support had rotted. He spent a lot of time on the job, making sure it wouldn't happen again, and during a break he got chatting with my wife. About 20 years ago, it turns out, he'd been in my remedial English class. He'd never been much of a writer, but one day we did a freewriting exercise that caught his fancy for some reason. Hundreds of thousands of exercises have gone over my desk since then, and I absolutely don't remember his paper at this point. But he said that the comment I'd written on his work was so nice that his mother had saved it, and in going through her effects recently, he'd found it and read it again.

Sometimes a random act of kindness comes back to haunt you in the end, even in the face of the roaring crowd.
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Post by Baylor »

I like your method, Moop. I'm going to start using the Moop Clause in my e-mails that ask such questions. :D
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Post by wndrkn »

Hi all!

I don't post much but I just needed to chime in. I do not see anything wrong with asking where you got a cel or sketch. It's not rude (although it can be asked rudely). I agree with Sensei completely. If you are buying something rare, old, or expensive, why not? What's the harm?

I've been collecting for many years now but I'm not as active as I used to be. Some seller are unfamliar to me and I may ask them "where did you buy this from?" If he or she tells me the name of a seller that I really trust, then that means a lot to me. And yes, I may follow up on that.

Wendy
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RoboFlonne
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Post by RoboFlonne »

I usually show the bidder the rest of my collection and they're so impressed that they don't know what else to say!

Pretty much everyone I sell to ask me in a follow up e-mail asking where I got it from. And I'll say it's from japan ~ desu!

I used to ask everyone also! But now I don't ask anymore!

:vict :vict
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birdie
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Post by birdie »

wndrkn wrote:If you are buying something rare, old, or expensive, why not? What's the harm?
What I was selling was neither rare, old or expensive. It's value is to each individual as we all have stated before. What my problem with asking for a COA for a $10 sketch is:

1) Who would I get it from since it didn't come with one? You obviously don't believe me in the first place.

2) Why isn't feedback enough to say this is an honest individual? ditto above

3) I state in the auction it is a production sketch - what else can I say to prove I didn't draw it myself?

I'm with Baylor, I think I will respond that if you have any doubts about it's authenticity please do not bid!
Last edited by birdie on Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by majinuub »

Doesn't bother me. I've had my share of questions like "what's the auction for, a picture?"I assumed the person didn't exactly know about production art so I tried to explain the concept to them(dunno if they understood it though :emb ). I decided to provide a link in my auctions for a better description of cels.

I remember 1 seller who auctioned printed cels and described them as authentic. The feedback was surprisingly decent though it had its share of negs.
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