Need advice

[Goldknight]

After my first round of auctions in December I shipped all the items. Apparently two items that were sent internationally December 19th and 20th haven't made it to their destinations. I gave the option on my auctions of shipping via EMS or first class for international buyers. Two of them chose the cheaper option so there's no tracking unless you can check the customs number. What do I do? These buyers chose the cheaper method and I did email them scans of the shipping receipts and customs forms as proof of shipping. Am I going to be out $$$$ now because they chose the cheap way out? I asked USPS, but there's nothing they can do since it's just a first class package. Customs isn't consistently scanned unless it gets hung up somewhere. I'm just so pissed off right now. I'm pissed at myself for giving the option of first class, I'm pissed at the buyer for acting surprised that they can't track the item, and I'm pissed at ebay taking the buyer's side even when there's proof.

Lesson has been learned........EMS all the way from now on with international buyers. They'll just have to pay.

[Killua]

Yeah I've been screwed a few times this way before I learned that you either send ems or registered first class mail. It's the only way to cover your butt from being screwed over by paypal.

[teggacat]

Ebay is a buyers world, buyers can do no wrong,
the sellers are vilified and are always wrong....
been down that road
on costlier cels I only offer Global Pri, no options anymore,
I learned my lesson the hard way too.

[Kasi]

Oh no! I'm an international buyer! I love first-class, I love risk!

Ok, more seriously, yes I do love cheap shipping, especially because large flat parcels seem to cost so much to send from my experience, but I never would have think to ask for a refund if my item was lost if more secure options were available at my dispense. Is this normal protocol on Ebay? I actually don't know at all, so I better shape up on the rules!

I want to give a little hope on the situation though, I think it's definitely possible these parcels are just late.
Especially around Christmas time, most international parcels make it through in average, to a little over-due times. However, some seem to spend an enormous amount of time in transit.
I shipped an item at the start of December (Australia to US), deemed it well and truly lost a few days ago, and then today, it turns up. Couldn't believe it! I may have quite a generous amount of faith in the postal system but I absolutely thought it was forever lost.
I've had a few other cases like this around Christmas time where I was the buyer, they pulled through eventually.

Are your buyers generally somewhat polite and understanding? I'd personally keep in close contact, and request a bit more time before they consider the parcels lost.
What countries did you ship to as well?

Either way, I feel your pain. It's awful thinking your items have just vanished and having little you can do about it, especially if you have to pay back a heavy loss to the buyers.
I hope they turn up

[Goldknight]

I shipped to Germany & UK. One was mailed on the 19th & the other on the 20th. The UK buyer has already opened a case. I explained the holiday season slow shipping & provided scans of the receipt & customs form. The Germany buyer has contacted me about the item not being received which makes me think they're next. I've already gone on eBay & removed the first class option on all of my current auctions.

[zerospace]

Wow, GK, that's a pretty short time given holiday shipping issues -- less than a month on both? I'd ask them politely to wait another week or two before doing anything. Beyond that, unfortunately, according to eBay, you're out the money. It sucks, but it's true. (I cringe every time I ship a First Class International package... and worry...). I refuse to ship anything valued over $20-$30.. $50 MAX via FCM International. It's too much risk. Sending them registered makes the rates near Priority rates.

On the other hand, I shipped a couple of International first class parcels near Christmas and all have reached their destinations. Weird. Including one to Germany... other to Australia, I think.

[Killua]

Ebay is a buyers world, buyers can do no wrong,
the sellers are vilified and are always wrong....
been down that road
on costlier cels I only offer Global Pri, no options anymore,
I learned my lesson the hard way too.

International priority mail doesn't normally offer tracking which leaves you unprotected.

[zerospace]

Ebay is a buyers world, buyers can do no wrong,
the sellers are vilified and are always wrong....
been down that road
on costlier cels I only offer Global Pri, no options anymore,
I learned my lesson the hard way too.

International priority mail doesn't normally offer tracking which leaves you unprotected.

Actually, yes it does. Only small flat rate Priority International boxes and envelopes don't provide tracking. Other Priority International package do -- though the destination country is also important here. But to places like the UK, Germany, most major European countries, Australia ... tracking IS available on Priority.

https://www.usps.com/ship/priority-mail ... tional.htm? (see the ** on small flat rate boxes & envelopes ).

[Kasi]

I think the risk of losing a parcel is very small really. unless the address is illegible, not waterproof, or no sender address included. You can't do much if its stolen though.
Does tracking help if the parcel is actually stolen? I thought insurance would be the only way to truley safe guard yourself?

[pixie_princess]

After my first round of auctions in December I shipped all the items. Apparently two items that were sent internationally December 19th and 20th haven't made it to their destinations. I gave the option on my auctions of shipping via EMS or first class for international buyers. Two of them chose the cheaper option so there's no tracking unless you can check the customs number. What do I do? These buyers chose the cheaper method and I did email them scans of the shipping receipts and customs forms as proof of shipping. Am I going to be out $$$$ now because they chose the cheap way out? I asked USPS, but there's nothing they can do since it's just a first class package. Customs isn't consistently scanned unless it gets hung up somewhere. I'm just so pissed off right now. I'm pissed at myself for giving the option of first class, I'm pissed at the buyer for acting surprised that they can't track the item, and I'm pissed at ebay taking the buyer's side even when there's proof.

Lesson has been learned........EMS all the way from now on with international buyers. They'll just have to pay.

With First Class international mail you can send it with the Registered Mail option for an extra $11.75 typically. This registered mail service supplies a tracking number and means that it must be signed for. It has a limited amount of insurance and is 'kept under lock and key' the whole way there.

As for first class international -yeah you're screwed. I sent a monster high doll to some scammer up in the UK who asked for the doll to be sent first class and that tracking wasn't needed and that she knew first class took a while. I scanned in the receipt and the post office had taken in origin scans. Burden of proof is on the sender. The sender has to provide online proof that it actually reached the receiver. As it was paypal reversed the payment so she got the doll and her money.

[Killua]

Actually, yes it does. Only small flat rate Priority International boxes and envelopes don't provide tracking. Other Priority International package do -- though the destination country is also important here. But to places like the UK, Germany, most major European countries, Australia ... tracking IS available on Priority.

https://www.usps.com/ship/priority-mail ... tional.htm? (see the ** on small flat rate boxes & envelopes ).

Ah, mea culpa. I think I must have used the small flat rate box... and lost 200 on it. Oh well. I guess it could have been worse.

[zerospace]

Actually, yes it does. Only small flat rate Priority International boxes and envelopes don't provide tracking. Other Priority International package do -- though the destination country is also important here. But to places like the UK, Germany, most major European countries, Australia ... tracking IS available on Priority.

https://www.usps.com/ship/priority-mail ... tional.htm? (see the ** on small flat rate boxes & envelopes ).

Ah, mea culpa. I think I must have used the small flat rate box... and lost 200 on it. Oh well. I guess it could have been worse.

Believe me, I'd have been wrong right along with you until about a year or so ago when I had something just like that happen. Thankfully it was only a cheap settei lot and I was only out about $20, but because my buyer insisted on a cheaper shipping method (Priority Flat Rate envelope) and the package got lost ... the USPS told me they couldn't do anything & I had no real choice but to give the buyer a refund. *sigh*

I also wanted to add that unless things have changed, Buyer Protection ONLY extends to buyers in certain countries where the program exists. I'm not sure which countries are covered, but it isn't all of them. So, essentially, only in those countries can eBay actually force you to refund the buyer for a lost or missing parcel. I think. ^^; Elsewhere, it's still buyer's risk for uninsured or untraceable packages.

EDIT: OK, I had to go read about the Buyer Protection thing. I'm sort of right on it -- it only extends to purchases made on the US eBay.com site (I guess if a foreign buyer uses the eBay.com site rather than their local site, then yep... you're screwed).

[Goldknight]

Soooooooo frustrating....... I keep checking my email hoping that the buyers have received their stuff.

[Drac of the Sharp Smiles]

Unfortunately, most people are grade A liars. I've come to assume people are liars unless they prove otherwise. I protect myself by first not using eBay for anything expensive (since eBay is happy to allow buyers to rip off sellers to hell and back so long as said "buyers" keep bidding on things and scamming sellers) and, second, tracking/insurance isn't optional on my auctions when I do use eBay. Sadly (and with apologies to people like Kasi), because of problems with tracking international packages and complaints from buyers about paying for trackable shipping, I now refuse to ship internationally for eBay auctions.

Thankfully, I've learned from the many stories like yours that I've heard and not from first hand experience. I hope for the best for you, but I'm sensing the buyers are scammers.

[zerospace]

Unfortunately, most people are grade A liars. I've come to assume people are liars unless they prove otherwise. I protect myself by first not using eBay for anything expensive (since eBay is happy to allow buyers to rip off sellers to hell and back so long as said "buyers" keep bidding on things and scamming sellers) and, second, tracking/insurance isn't optional on my auctions when I do use eBay. Sadly (and with apologies to people like Kasi), because of problems with tracking international packages and complaints from buyers about paying for trackable shipping, I now refuse to ship internationally for eBay auctions.

Thankfully, I've learned from the many stories like yours that I've heard and not from first hand experience. I hope for the best for you, but I'm sensing the buyers are scammers.

It's funny you say that, because honestly.. I sell a LOT on eBay and my experience is the opposite. Out of all the sales I make across all sorts of collectible items, DVDs, games, etc etc... I'd say that I run into a few buyers every 6 months or so that I'd question. Yeah, true, many act like idiots, jerks, etc., but it's also in part because a lot of sellers are freaking RUDE -- they assume every buyer is scamming them, give them a hard time (and are nasty about it), and there ya go. Problem in a nutshell. I find if I just treat people like I'd want to be treated in that situation, things end up working out just fine. I give refunds when I should, because I accept the responsibility that eBay places on me which is that I am responsible for my items even once they've left my hands. Why? Because businesses online are responsible for this, too. Are we all businesses? No, but if you worry, insure it. Look at it this way: You sell an item to someone & the package isn't insured. It gets damaged or lost in handling. Are they responsible for that? Nope! Not even if they chose a cheap shipping method! You can build in the cost of insurance to your shipping costs, which is what I do for anything of significant value that I care if I have to refund it. I happily eat the cost of insurance on high price items for that very reason. It's worth my peace of mind.

I would say that 99.9% of the time when I sell, I have no issues. I've even had a buyer initially be rude as hell towards me over a cheap item that was damaged in shipping, and when I gave him a refund and a profuse apology (the problem was actually my fault), he replied with an apology of his own for being such a jerk & thanked me for being so nice about it.

So, really... eBay isn't 100% evil -- you just have to realize something: if you want to sell on eBay, you play by their rules. If you don't like their rules, then don't ever sell there. It's that simple. No one ever said any of us has a right to sell on eBay the way we want to .