Batman "The dark knight"

blueheaven · Post by **blueheaven** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:47 pm

All you need to know about the Joker/Batman dynamic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JEa71aS3oU

Truly evil.

RalphVboy · Post by **RalphVboy** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:47 pm

blueheaven wrote:Yes, because Sin City was such a waste. The Punisher was such a waste. A History of Violence was such a waste. Those were films that took their dialogue and visuals directly from the comic books, and they were fantastic. 300 added a few things, but 85% of it was panel for panel from the comic.

http://welcomeconsumer.com/?p=349

This is what happens when a director reads comics.

Very cool article. And major thanks for mentioning The Punisher, Frank Castle always has and always will be my favorite comic book character. Especially Garth Ennis' interpretation of him

- RalphVboy

morgan · Post by **morgan** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:52 pm

blueheaven wrote:What I think Nolan and Ledger will bring to the role is the original Joker. Jack, while he did a good job, was more of the Ceasar Romero type when it came to his portrayal. The Joker, the real one, isn't about squirting flowers, ridiculously large guns, and purple paint. He is a stone cold killer. He gets off on causing the misery of others and the attention it brings him. His greatest laugh was paralyzing Barbara Gordon and killing Robin. I REALLY did not like what Tim Burton did to the Batman characters. You could tell he hadn't read a comic in his life. And Jack was simply doing an amalgam of Ceasar Romero's character and a prop comic.

amen

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:39 pm

I just love Jack N. and Robin Williams... I don't really care what role they play so I guess I'm biased!

Each actor can act only so much.... They all bring their personalities. So I guess you want a dark/evil actor to do Joker.

I personally prefer movies with Likable Villains.

Villains who aren't pure evil.

I can predict everything that a pure evil villain will do.

It just takes the fun out for me.

also I didn't think that all of those Tim Burton films were that bad... I haven't seen Corpse bride! Maybe that one was bad? I thought Johnny D. in Willy Wonka was kinda funny.

I guess I don't expect as much from a movie... As long as I'm happy I like it.

What movies with pure evil villains do you think I should watch?

blueheaven · Post by **blueheaven** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:28 pm

The official site has a high def trailer up now.

http://atasteforthetheatrical.com/deathtrap/default.htm

I think you are confusing likeable with charismatic. Hannibal Lecter is charismatic, but pure evil. The Joker is charismatic, but pure evil. They make for great movies, but I would not want to have coffee with them. With evil, there is no shade of grey. Personally, I just found Jack to be pathetic as The Joker. His jokes, appearance, and demeanor were that of an old man in his wife's makeup trying to tell stale jokes to entertain five year olds. If I ran into him in a dark alley, I would not turn the other way. But Hannibal?

Here's the problem...Joker isn't crazy. He is perfectly sane. He is a genius, and therefore very calculating in everything that he does. While it may seem that he is losing control, he is as much in control as Batman. The Joker is in perfect communication with his Id. One minute, he could be using water pistols to rob a bank, the next minute he is gassing a church and killing all 87 members.

And Robin Williams is a historically notorious joke thief. I have no respect for comics who steal material from others. He has even paid guys for stealing their jokes.

As for movies with purely evil villains...
The Exorcist
Halloween
Kiss of Death(the original)
Silence of the Lambs
Cape Fear(original)
A Clockwork Orange
Seven
and the list goes on and on.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:28 pm

blueheaven wrote:The official site has a high def trailer up now.

http://atasteforthetheatrical.com/deathtrap/default.htm

I think you are confusing likeable with charismatic. Hannibal Lecter is charismatic, but pure evil. The Joker is charismatic, but pure evil. They make for great movies, but I would not want to have coffee with them. With evil, there is no shade of grey. Personally, I just found Jack to be pathetic as The Joker. His jokes, appearance, and demeanor were that of an old man in his wife's makeup trying to tell stale jokes to entertain five year olds. If I ran into him in a dark alley, I would not turn the other way. But Hannibal?

Here's the problem...Joker isn't crazy. He is perfectly sane. He is a genius, and therefore very calculating in everything that he does. While it may seem that he is losing control, he is as much in control as Batman. The Joker is in perfect communication with his Id. One minute, he could be using water pistols to rob a bank, the next minute he is gassing a church and killing all 87 members.

And Robin Williams is a historically notorious joke thief. I have no respect for comics who steal material from others. He has even paid guys for stealing their jokes.

As for movies with purely evil villains...
The Exorcist
Halloween
Kiss of Death(the original)
Silence of the Lambs
Cape Fear(original)
A Clockwork Orange
Seven
and the list goes on and on.

Oh! Thanks for explaining the pure evil part... I've always had in my mind that you had to be insane to be pure evil.

I'll have to spend some time contemplating the sane pure evil villain! I really appreciate it!

blueheaven · Post by **blueheaven** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:10 pm

Oh yeah. Alex de Large is a perfect example. Evil. Ruthless. Without conscience. However, perfectly lucid and sane. I think we attempt to comfort ourselves sometimes by trying to believe that a person has to be insane to be evil. Some folks, are just plain bad.

Shampoo · Post by **Shampoo** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:31 pm

RoboFlonne wrote:

Oh! Thanks for explaining the pure evil part... I've always had in my mind that you had to be insane to be pure evil.

I'll have to spend some time contemplating the sane pure evil villain! I really appreciate it!

Surely you aren't serious... right?

o_O

(I'll pretend you were)

In any case, i f you were to pick up any books on the subject of crime or or even blindly flip thru an encyclopedia of infamous serial killers/arsenists
I guarantee you-- insanity is not always linked to what society considers 'evil' deeds and heinous crimes.
Some of the most legendary serial killers like Ted Bundy were as charismatic, educated, and charming as any degree-bearing Hollywood hunk.

Insanity is just a small check box on a very long laundry list of profile red flags some criminals may have but it isnt a sure fire stamp.

Anywhooo...

Count me in on the crowd that cant wait for this movie

:

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:26 pm

I always associate Insanity with Sociopaths.... Are sociopaths not insane?

blueheaven · Post by **blueheaven** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:58 pm

Yes, sociopathy is a brand of insanity. However, not all evil people are sociopaths or psychopaths. I think we wrongly label some people as insane because it is impossible to some that evil exists. If you have a person who spends their life doing good deeds, making others feel good, and smiling all the time, do we call them insanely happy? Why can't there just be bad people? Why do we have to have a label for someone who wants to destroy everything he or she touches? Because then we have to live with the fact that evil cannot be cured. "No sane person could ever do what Ted Bundy did!" Well, why not?

miz ducky · Post by **miz ducky** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:25 pm

I think that this movie will change the Batman movie franchise for the better (like "Begins" did). I'm looking forward to it.

transmet · Post by **transmet** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:48 pm

wELCOME cONSUMER wrote:He didn't direct Nightmare Before Christmas but he did direct Corpse Bride. One is good, the other is not. Interesting.

Hate to say it, but I couldn't disagree more. I loved Corpse Bride.

RoboFlonne wrote:Personally I like Tim Burton's sense of humor and his movies.

I agree with ya RF, and I can't wait to see Sweeney Todd. I've loved Burton's work since Vincent. And while I do agree that his earlier movies did tend to be better (ie. more expressive of his true, uninhibited persona), at least he's still trying - at least he's keeping it dark, even if somewhat comedic.

blueheaven wrote:Yes, because Sin City was such a waste. The Punisher was such a waste. A History of Violence was such a waste. Those were films that took their dialogue and visuals directly from the comic books, and they were fantastic.

I agree that more comic book movies would benefit from directly ripping the storyline, camera angles, lighting, etc. from the comic. I've always believed that well written graphics novels and/or collected story arcs are the perfect storyboards. Why change it?

I will note that I've hated both movie incarnations of the Punisher. This character has always hit home with me (no surprises there) and while the second movie was at least barely tolerable (a) I'm sorry, I've met Thomas Jane and he's a great guy and a pretty good actor and all but... the Punisher? Really? No. (b) Miami - why the f@#% would Frank be located in Miami? New York people! C'mon. (c) Now Ray Stevenson, he looks like the Punisher. And even though it's being filmed in Montreal *sigh*, at least the setting is supposed to be New friggin' York.

Now I think we can all agree that Guillermo del Toro knows what he's doing as far as directing is concerned. El Laberinto del fauno is one of the most mesmerizing experiences I've ever had in a movie theatre. Not one person did not jump at least once during the 3x I went to see it (including myself) - a very enviable acomplishment. The 1st Hellboy was a comic fan's dream come true, perfectly capturing the character. Having the actual character creator and artist as the adviser on set also tends to help. The sequel looks absolutely amazing:

Teaser Trailer

Official site: http://www.hellboymovie.com/

And I'm really, really looking forward to the next DK movie. The new trailer leaves a chill running down my spine.

Startyde · Post by **Startyde** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:21 am

Very intersting read, this thread that is. Well spoken and articulated. I'd like to comment more, but for now I will annoyingly throw out my two cents with nearly no justification at all:

1. Time Burton's first Batman is an amazing movie and I love how it shaped what comic movies could be in 1989. Without going into how much it destroys Dark Knight Returns or any of the like, it is enjoyable, funny, l takes Batman out of his blue tights and attempts to make a man dressed as a bat semi legitimate to an audience of moviegowers used to seeing him dance the Bat-walse on the silver screen. And no, Batman Begins does not have the coolest Batmobile, Burton had the coolest Batmobile.

2. The added scenes in 300 turned that into a total POS. I won't even watch it again.

3. Sin City, though true to the grapghic novel, was still just a carbon copy of a rather borning and predictable story. I have no idea why Sin City is popular. It's like Clockwerk Orange but less funny and no cool hats.

4. The Dark Knight will be awesome because Batman Begins is awesome, but it doesn't mean we have to trash everything before it. If something come's out better then the new movies, would we go back and trash them? Just enjoy anyone who tries to make something interesting and semi true to the essence for us to enjoy. I still fight off waves of rabbid Transfans complaining that the Bay's TF's don't look EXACTLY like the cartoon.

5. Hopefully The Watchmen will be true to the source...and ultimately, be the greatest movie of all time.

transmet · Post by **transmet** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:19 am

Startyde wrote:Hopefully The Watchmen will be true to the source...and ultimately, be the greatest movie of all time.

Amen brother... A—men!

edit: I was wondering if anyone got a chance to see the 7 minute short that was shown before the IMAX I Am Legend presentation which had to do with a bank robbery early on in the Joker's criminal career? I'm very curious...

edit II: Saw Sweeney Todd today (12/23) and I loved it! Dark, bloody fun.

blueheaven · Post by **blueheaven** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:06 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7rKDambdsI

New footage of the Joker from The Dark Knight. Good 4 minute scene