VTech

kittens · Post by **kittens** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:57 am

blueheaven wrote:I understand that this is the culture you come from, and our way of life must seem so alien to you. But the truth of the matter is, anyone who wants a gun, even in places where it is outlawed, will get a gun.

But it would be MUCH small probability. Also prob buying a gun would be so much more expensive so that a regular ppl would not be able to buy a gun (prob buying a gun from a local gang or something). The problem I have is that everyone can buy a gun and these who own guns store in a closet not in a gun safe! I think if we want to keep legalize guns then they should require buying a gunsafe in addition to register so that small kids would not get a gun and kill someone by accident (BTW the most incidents caused by a gun is to shoot someone by accident like kids found a gun and shoot him or herself).

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:57 am

I assume you mean our current problem.

blueheaven · Post by **blueheaven** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:15 am

kittens wrote:The problem I have is that everyone can buy a gun and these who own guns store in a closet not in a gun safe! I think if we want to keep legalize guns then they should require buying a gunsafe in addition to register so that small kids would not get a gun and kill someone by accident (BTW the most incidents caused by a gun is to shoot someone by accident like kids found a gun and shoot him or herself).

I agree totally, but that is a bit of a generalization. Not ALL legal gun owners are irresponsible. Actually, I'd say the vast majority are very responsible. I have been a gun owner for years. I was taught to operate and respect guns at an early age by a parent who was very knowledgeable. I keep my guns in a case, locked, and with a trigger lock on the gun itself. I don't even have kids! But I do agree that all states should require a course in gun safety before you own one.

kittens · Post by **kittens** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:37 am

blueheaven wrote: I agree totally, but that is a bit of a generalization. Not ALL legal gun owners are irresponsible. Actually, I'd say the vast majority are very responsible. I have been a gun owner for years. I was taught to operate and respect guns at an early age by a parent who was very knowledgeable. I keep my guns in a case, locked, and with a trigger lock on the gun itself. I don't even have kids! But I do agree that all states should require a course in gun safety before you own one.

I did not say all of them are

Yeah requiring a gun safety course would be much better solution.

CNN news says that it took the killer for few minutes to obtain a gun and bullets which is extremely unsafe, I think.... (like in order to get a driver's license, everyone has to take an exam.... We should do the same for guns, I think....).

wELCOME cONSUMER · Post by **wELCOME cONSUMER** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:12 pm

kittens wrote:
blueheaven wrote: I agree totally, but that is a bit of a generalization. Not ALL legal gun owners are irresponsible. Actually, I'd say the vast majority are very responsible. I have been a gun owner for years. I was taught to operate and respect guns at an early age by a parent who was very knowledgeable. I keep my guns in a case, locked, and with a trigger lock on the gun itself. I don't even have kids! But I do agree that all states should require a course in gun safety before you own one.
I did not say all of them are

Yeah requiring a gun safety course would be much better solution. CNN news says that it took the killer for few minutes to obtain a gun and bullets which is extremely unsafe, I think.... (like in order to get a driver's license, everyone has to take an exam.... We should do the same for guns, I think....).

I agree. There should be more things set in place to ensure safety and proper handling. A vehicle is a weapon just as much as a gun is but both are treated differently. What's worse, kids under the age of 18 can own and operate cars legally.

Gun ownership is a fine thing but should be done responsibly. But I don't know exactly how much of that sentiment comes into play with a situation like this one. Legal or illegal gun ownership doesn't matter much to someone who is hell bent on mass murdering. Would legislative steps really have prevented this situation? Probably not. We have laws against drinking and driving but nearly 40% of all vehicle related fatalities are caused by drunk driving. That's one fatality every half hour.

Not Sir Phobos · Post by **Not Sir Phobos** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:00 pm

In california, whenever a gun is purchased the selling dealer has to give the customer a 5 minute tutorial on gun safety. Afterwards the new owner has to demonstrate they know how to load and unload the firearm, how you would prepare your gun for long term storage and demonstrate you kow what and where the different parts are. Followed by signing a legal paper that you have taken that little course.

To purchase handguns in California you need to be 21 years old and get a handgun purchasing permit. To get the permit you need to pass a written test, pay for the government to do a background check on you, and make an appointment with the sheriff's office to go in for a livescan, which means you are fingerprinted and they run your prints in the national database. Once you pass (and pay for) all that you can buy a handgun, but only one a month.

When you pick up your handgun you need to sign that you have a government authorized gunsafe that you will be keeping the handgun in. Or else you need to purchase a gunlock (another $40 on the spot because the recipt HAS to list the gunlock in the same purchase as the gun) before the store can release it to you. Even if you bring in a nice expensive top of the line gunlock with you they cannot release it unless you buy ANOTHER one.

AAAAAaaaaahhhhh, bless the land of the free.

ZombieBunny · Post by **ZombieBunny** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:18 pm

Not Sir Phobos wrote:In california, whenever a gun is purchased the selling dealer has to give the customer a 5 minute tutorial on gun safety. Afterwards the new owner has to demonstrate they know how to load and unload the firearm, how you would prepare your gun for long term storage and demonstrate you kow what and where the different parts are. Followed by signing a legal paper that you have taken that little course.

To purchase handguns in California you need to be 21 years old and get a handgun purchasing permit. To get the permit you need to pass a written test, pay for the government to do a background check on you, and make an appointment with the sheriff's office to go in for a livescan, which means you are fingerprinted and they run your prints in the national database. Once you pass (and pay for) all that you can buy a handgun, but only one a month.

When you pick up your handgun you need to sign that you have a government authorized gunsafe that you will be keeping the handgun in. Or else you need to purchase a gunlock (another $40 on the spot because the recipt HAS to list the gunlock in the same purchase as the gun) before the store can release it to you. Even if you bring in a nice expensive top of the line gunlock with you they cannot release it unless you buy ANOTHER one.

AAAAAaaaaahhhhh, bless the land of the free.

I'm not sure how to take your last comment.

You could be bringing in someone elses gunlock and just discard it or give it back when you leave the shop. They are making sure you own one right then and there. To me that is a good thing. I'm glad to know however that it takes all of that to get a gun in California.

Unfortunately Texas is a stupid state when it comes to gun laws. This comes from a Texas government site regarding aquiring a gun:

State Requirements:

Rifles and Shotguns

- Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No.

- Registration of rifles and shotguns? No.

- Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No.

- Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No.

Handguns

- Permit to purchase handgun? No.

- Registration of handguns? No.

- Licensing of owners of handguns? No.

- Permit to carry handguns? Yes.

Now, here in Texas you can carry a SHOTGUN around without a permit but not a HANDGUN. To me that is sad.

Here is a government site itself:
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislatio ... .php?st=tx

That shows our States Report Card on our Gun Laws. We get a D- and yet the laws stay the same. This is one of the reasons there are so many people attaining guns who have no clue in anything about it.

This is the United States; I believe all states should have a combined gun law. I know this doesnt mean people will still get guns illegally, but it could help reduce it greatly.

AND FOR US TEXANS: http://www.texansforgunsafety.org/

Post by **JWR** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:18 am

As most who I have talked with know. I have been involved in the responsible promotion , use and training of sports that involve firearms. From years as a competitor with rifles to coaching and later setting up in the state of California various State Championships as well as our team sent to compete on the National level.

It always pains me deeply that one evil person's actions seem to paint all of the vast majority that keep and use firearms responsibly with the same brush.

We all are in favor of sensible laws to keep firearms away from those who should not have them. As NSP talked about here in California has for many years such laws but we have all seen , no amount of laws can stop a lone psychopath from misusing.

In Virginia , they do have laws in place that could have stopped this person bent on evil from legally purchasing the gun he used. Unfortunatly the system failed. Why did that happen? When he was accused of stalking women in 2005 , reports were made but those involved chose not to pursue prosecution nor was a restraining order requested. If either had been done , the report in the data base would have caused his request to purchase a gun denied.

Later his family had him seek mental help which had him spend some time in a mental hospital. Unfortunatly due to the hospitalization being voluntary and not court ordered , they were not required to report it to the police so it could have been entered into the data base. It it had been in the data base , this also would have caused him not to have been able to make the purchase.

That sad part is even if they had the same laws in Virginia as in California , he still would have been able to buy the gun. He bought it over a month before the crime so even the waiting period would had no effect.

Firearm ownership is a polarizing issue. In our system the Federal Goverment sets basic laws governing them and States are able to pass their own laws in a lot of cases more restrictive than the Federal ones. Still all the laws on the books can't stop a person bent on doing evil, a gun does not pick it's target or fire itself.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:58 pm

I believe in Bullet proof Shields and Tazers... As in Prevention and defense.

I don't think banning guns would prevent this.

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:58 pm

What do you say to people who believe Bullet proof Shields and Tazers does not exist?

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:59 pm

Well... I'd say that you should google images for Bullet proof shields and tazers!

wELCOME cONSUMER · Post by **wELCOME cONSUMER** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:53 pm

Not Sir Phobos wrote:In california, whenever a gun is purchased the selling dealer has to give the customer a 5 minute tutorial on gun safety. Afterwards the new owner has to demonstrate they know how to load and unload the firearm, how you would prepare your gun for long term storage and demonstrate you kow what and where the different parts are. Followed by signing a legal paper that you have taken that little course.

To purchase handguns in California you need to be 21 years old and get a handgun purchasing permit. To get the permit you need to pass a written test, pay for the government to do a background check on you, and make an appointment with the sheriff's office to go in for a livescan, which means you are fingerprinted and they run your prints in the national database. Once you pass (and pay for) all that you can buy a handgun, but only one a month.

When you pick up your handgun you need to sign that you have a government authorized gunsafe that you will be keeping the handgun in. Or else you need to purchase a gunlock (another $40 on the spot because the recipt HAS to list the gunlock in the same purchase as the gun) before the store can release it to you. Even if you bring in a nice expensive top of the line gunlock with you they cannot release it unless you buy ANOTHER one.

AAAAAaaaaahhhhh, bless the land of the free.

That's really cool. But is that only in CA? I didn't know it was such a process, but that's great. It really should be that complex and thorough.

As Zombie points out, not every state is that smart and this shooting didn't take place in CA.

If someone is mentally disturbed, no amount of gun laws would prevent him from doing what he has set himself to do. He could high jack a school bus, drive a car into the campus, make a bomb, stab a bunch of people, etc. Who knows. The scenarios are endless. People, sadly, are capable of almost anything.

Not Sir Phobos · Post by **Not Sir Phobos** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:19 am

wELCOME cONSUMER wrote:
Not Sir Phobos wrote:In california, whenever a gun is purchased the selling dealer has to give the customer a 5 minute tutorial on gun safety. Afterwards the new owner has to demonstrate they know how to load and unload the firearm, how you would prepare your gun for long term storage and demonstrate you kow what and where the different parts are. Followed by signing a legal paper that you have taken that little course.

To purchase handguns in California you need to be 21 years old and get a handgun purchasing permit. To get the permit you need to pass a written test, pay for the government to do a background check on you, and make an appointment with the sheriff's office to go in for a livescan, which means you are fingerprinted and they run your prints in the national database. Once you pass (and pay for) all that you can buy a handgun, but only one a month.

When you pick up your handgun you need to sign that you have a government authorized gunsafe that you will be keeping the handgun in. Or else you need to purchase a gunlock (another $40 on the spot because the recipt HAS to list the gunlock in the same purchase as the gun) before the store can release it to you. Even if you bring in a nice expensive top of the line gunlock with you they cannot release it unless you buy ANOTHER one.

AAAAAaaaaahhhhh, bless the land of the free.
That's really cool. But is that only in CA? I didn't know it was such a process, but that's great. It really should be that complex and thorough.

As Zombie points out, not every state is that smart and this shooting didn't take place in CA.

If someone is mentally disturbed, no amount of gun laws would prevent him from doing what he has set himself to do. He could high jack a school bus, drive a car into the campus, make a bomb, stab a bunch of people, etc. Who knows. The scenarios are endless. People, sadly, are capable of almost anything.

I remember a last year (or the year before) a distraught kid waited outside a subway outlet. As soon as a rush of people came out he ran around stabbing and slicing people. He killed a few people as I recall and dozens were injured or hospitaized. Again another situation where one legally carrying citizen could have stopped the madness. Unfortunately it happened in Europe so there was nobody to stop it.