Talk about anything?

[thrance]

I dont mean to cause trouble or stir the pot etc but I saw the econo thread locked, with one of the last posts saying something along the lines of

"Last time I looked, this was a cel collectors forum,
not a place to bitch about the economy.

I suggest if you want to continue to complain about this,
you take it to pm's, or go post at www.whogivesacrap.com" - Pudge

True, the site in general is about anime and cel collecting, but the Anything section does say "Talk about anything."

I understand you <everyone in general, not Pudge> want the forums to be peaceful and all, but for example, that topic, people obviously did care a to some degree if they posted in it.

I havent been here in eons for various reasons, one of them is this. The shunning of political and or spiritual/religious topics because it might get heated.

I posted a topic with one of those little scare videos once, it got locked because someone got really freaked out. Frankly I was ticked off with her, as Im sure she was with me <dont remember ever really exchanging words> and I was pretty irked at the idea of being censored period for something that obviously wasnt hateful or meant to cause harm.

People get heated, people dont like other people, it's a fact of life. Yes people wish to come here to relax etc, but the cel collecting world covers a wide range of people who are not drones in the sence the only thing on their mind is anime and cels. We have various likes and dislikes.

The point being, this section, the anything section should be used for such expressions. After all, again "Talk about ANYTHING." Why not let us use it for such purposes within reason? I myself sometimes have started a thread only to scrap it before posting because I dont wish it to be locked etc because the topic is simply taboo seemingly here.

That is not a good feeling.

[Gonzai]

You know, I am sure there are many political forums,
economy forums, religious forums that you guys can
go bitch your heads off at. This is a cel collectors forum.
We have talked about doing away with the anything
forum for this particular reason, ok.

I don't mean to come off as a total bitch here, or maybe
I do - who knows, but if you guys want to call each other
names, or throw your testosterone around or say I am
smarter then you - whatever - go do it where it was meant
to be - on one of those other boards.

I am here to moderate this forum, and to keep peace.
All I heard about was how everyone hated Animanga because
it turned into a big bitch fest all the time. Well, its my job
to keep that from happening here, and that is just what I
am going to do.

If you guys want to pay me more then I am currently making
to let you all tear each other's heads off - believe me - I am
not cheap.

[blueheaven]

I have to agree here. Thrance and I have not always seen eye to eye, but our discussions have been civil. Even kenshikenji had some good points to make, I will admit. I just don't like the idea of closing threads BEFORE they get heated. I would rather wait and see if the members here could work things out for themselves. When you close a thread, you leave a lot of open anger and frustration. By letting it run it's course, you allow for the chance to work things out and resolve differences. I got the chance to speak my peace, but kenshikenji did not. He had to PM me to do so(and I will read those articles, thank you!). I love Pudge to death, and the rest of the mods here do a great job as well. I just think we need to be treated like adults and allowed to work out our own problems.

[zerospace]

I never post about these sorts of things, but I'm going to today, because this is why I haven't been posting here as much.

Blueheaven, while you make a great point, and it would be great if that happened in theory, but look what happened on Animanga when threads were left to 'run their course'. Everyone left because the place degenerated into a flame-war filled cespool. Not only that, but if left to run their course, many of those threads will end up turning into flame wars before (if they ever) become civil again. Folks on this forum have proven that time and time again. Heated discussions belong where you had to finish this one: PM. Personal attacks have no place on a public forum, in my opinion -- and I saw some flying in that thread--subtle though they may have been.

Let me finish this off by saying that I moderate a couple other forums on the web, and I have first hand knowledge and experience in dealing with these sorts of things. I agree with Pudge here, even if I am the only one.

[Lynxa]

Yeah, I wasn't participating in the thread but I was enjoying reading the discussion. A couple of participants got a little snippy but it wasn't a flamewar by any means, and everyone kept the discussion on topic. I think the locking was a tad bit premature (I never got grounded before I did something wrong when I was a kid )

To date, I think there have been more hurt feelings and anger over actual, "legitimate" cel/anime related threads than there have been over anything in the "anything" section. I also make friends on forums, and when you are friends with people you have a tendency to want to discuss things other than what you have in common. I like the "anything" section and it not only saddens me, but frightens me a little as well, that the idea of taking it away was bandied about.

I'm sorry, Pudge, that you seem to be taking this personally, but there was no name-calling in the thread, some perfectly legitimate bitching, and only a minor amount of testosterone. I salute the herculean efforts of the mods, I know it is no small task, but surely there is a way to head off something that seems to be an impending flamewar without locking the thread (I think a quick PM to Blueheaven and Kenshikenji probably would have done the trick ).

A lively, heated debate isn't necessarily the same thing as a fight. If we all thought the same way the world would be a fairly boring place.

[Nelia]

I'm not one to say much against authority, but I'm distraught about this.

I agree, but the reason given wasn't true to the reason the topic got frozen. If someone's afraid a topic will get heated, why even have forums? Why even let people discuss their opinions in the one section of the forum that they can speak freely in about 'anything'?

In essence, we weren't 'bitching' about anything. We were having a civil discussion about our state of the union here in the US, and until someone does start throwing insults ("U STUPID LIBBY" or "CRAZY CON"), then the thread should have went on in peace. Pudge could have even stepped in and said, "Let's keep this civil, no name calling" or whatnot.

But freezing the topic because people are speaking their mind? I've seen bidding wars that were more insulting/personal/rude than the eco-thread, which really upsets me. I've even seen posts here on AB that were more intense than the eco-thread.

What upsets me more was that the mod's response to the thread was more insulting to the posters than the thread itself.

Maybe I can make a post about how tabby cats are better than calico, and then watch it get frozen because it's a bit 'heated'...

[thrance]

If its a cel collectors forum, and this is what the mods and site owner truely wish, then remove sections that do not pertain to cel collecting. I dont think ANYONE wants that done though.

Yes, this is a whole diff group then the forum I belong to that Im about to mention, but thats besides the point.

I belong to forum with almost no moderation. In the spiritual section, man oh man, the resident fundy christian, wiccan, wiccan christian, and athiest, talk about heated debates with name calling. But at the end of the day, they made their peace after they said what they wanted to say. This were almost always contained in one thread. If you didnt wanna read it, you didnt have to.

Now, the point being, it happens. Yes, the rules HERE are against flaming etc. That is totaly fine! But to have a section thats about anything, then to unofficialy limit what can be posted is a wee contradictive.

Like I said, this is a diff group of people. So sometimes I want new views, of people I know and dont know on certain topics. Then I think,"Whats the point, I'll get bitched out by some, maybe even have the thread locked or deleted because the topic is taboo here"

What Ive noticed here sometimes is someone reads/see's something they dont like, reports it and bam, the other person gets all irked and what not.

It breaks down to this, if I say retard, someone whines, then I change it to mentaly challenged or handicap, again someone whines because it still puts a "negative" association in, it gets to the point where I have to invent some PC friendly word <not that this example applies here, or that I go around bashing such peoples etc>

We are always going to unknowingly and unintentionaly say or do something that offends someone else. Thats fine, thats how the world spins. I accept this, and if Im alerted to it, I will usualy give a personal appology.

Like I said, if this is a real problem, and the majority really wish this to be a cels only site, just remove the sections that dont pertain to the hobby.

Otherwise, please do like blueheaven said, treat us like adults <though not everyone here is an adult I assume> and give us some credit to moderate ourselves and the freedom to explore some topics. At worse, people will get heated, or the thread simply dies to no responce, at best you can find new common grounds to build greater friendships on with people who are already friends, or people who could be future friends.

[Gonzai]

Don't worry Lynxa - I am not taking anything personally.
My personal life is way more important to me then this
board is, so things said on here really don't have that
much effect on me.

The point I am getting at is this, there are lots of boards
on the web for these particular types of topics. I am
totally against posting about religion, politics and war
or anything of that nature on this board, because all it
eventually does is lead to hurt feelings.

Take my word for it, I totally have a stance on the
topic that was being posted about, but I refuse to get
involved, because it causes nothing but hard feelings
in the end. Yes, we all have differing opinions, but
that is what cause people to talk before they think.

I can point out to you a hundred different posts made
by people who came over here because they were sick
of all the bickering that was going on at Animanga. Yes,
peoples feelings have been hurt over cel collecting posts,
and we try our best to keep that from happening, but this
is a cel collectors forum - not a political or religious forum.

I have to say that I am happy to hear when people say
they like posting here and coming here cause there are
no flame wars and we as moderaters do the best we can
to keep it that way. My guess is that Beta wouldn't have
grown as big as it is today if we would have let everything
run amok like Animanga did.

Just my 2 cents, but all I can say is, "Prove me wrong."

[yoshito]

Why to forums always have these sort of, "I'm calling you out in front of my friends" type topics instead of private messages? Always been curious of the reasoning and figure this site might be able to help me understand, since people here won't accuse me of being one of "Them" here.

Also like Zero, I Moderate a forum much like this... but add in a bunch of kids who thinks it is fun to push the limits of the rules, yell when they are enforced, and yet enjoy using them to their own advantage. I've been called out numerous times with these sort of posts, had support and anger on both sides. Yes, I've made mistakes and locked one or two that people could have cleaned it up. Which I unlocked it or apologized for my mistake. Then again I've locked and "deleted" some really bad topics due to the lack of tact. So personally when I read such posts as this it just makes one wonder why Moderators even bother doing what they thought they were promoted to do, and next time not even caring.

As for somewhat on topic, I thought it was quite odd seeing a topic such as this here. Trust me, by saying we want these types of topics here, it leads to a slippery slope. One that will change this forum from what it is (artwork collection forum) to a general one that discusses topics ranging from farm animal rights to the dust percentage from the farthest moon. The site I now retire from as a Moderator has done just that. Now people enjoy "discussing" things and have ruined the spirit of that board and I really don't want to see this place do the same.

[thrance]

Yes there are those forums out there, but not the PEOPLE here. Perhaps I want to learn/hear about various peoples opinions on say what their ideal of a soul is, or if they even believe in one, and if they dont why not etc. Should I be reduced to PM'ing everyone because it's an unofficial no no topic in a talk about anything section?

I mean, if thats the rule, I'll follow it most likely or just vanish for another year, which Im sure is no big loss for anyone here.

All Im saying is I, and Im going to guess others, should not feel "bad" or "worried" etc about posting some topics here.

And as a side note, Pudge, I know you said you dont take it personaly, and I hope no one else does or see's me as being angry etc. Thats one bad thing about the net, you cant see the person and get a better idea of intent etc!

[Cloud]

That is just one of many bad thing about the net you can not see the person and get a better idea of intent etc.

[kenshikenji]

The point being, this section, the anything section should be used for such expressions. After all, again "Talk about ANYTHING." Why not let us use it for such purposes within reason? I myself sometimes have started a thread only to scrap it before posting because I dont wish it to be locked etc because the topic is simply taboo seemingly here.

That is not a good feeling.

i agree thrance

[Cloud]

Becuase you asked me to.

[thrance]

Well if everyone is worried this place will become a site for discussion and not collecting cels and other things in the hobby, it shouldnt have a few sections it has right now.

I used to post here tons, in all that time, Ive never hated anyone or thought of someone as an enemy. There have been like, three? people Ive been angry, or just upset with from time to time which always fade away. Maybe its just me, I dont know, but I would hope others could do the same.

[Baylor]

Honestly, this is a case of "damned if we do, damned if we don't."

We're damned now for locking it before some people thought it was heated. We should let things run their course. And then when we do, we get PMs from people complaining that things went out of control, feelings were hurt, and where the hell were any of us.

None of these threads are black and white, and my mod manual doesn't say, "If someone says this, let it go and if someone says this, lock it." It's all from gut reactions and past experiences. We see one thread on religion and we watch it closely because hey, remember back when we had that one religion thread and it got so ugly a bunch of people left. So we sometimes have knee jerk reactions? Sure! Do we make mistakes? Sure! But we never mean to censor or openly upset people; we just want to keep the peace and make Beta that overly friendly and welcome place for cel collectors it usually is.

My 2 cents.

And yes, zero and yoshito, this is definitely not an easy job!