Is it me...

[majinuub]

or have quality american animated shows dwindled over the years?

What triggered me to ask this question was a visit to my sisters house this weekend. She has various dvd animated TV shows from disney and WB and she let me borrow a couple(ok a ton) this weekend. I decided to start with animaniacs as that was one of my favorite animated series. It was a huge nostalgia rush for me and I don't remember the last time I enjoyed laughing and learning at the same time. Seriously, what on earth happened to making shows like this? I've always felt that children/pre-teens can be educated and entertained as proven by this series. I remember when I was young I would always try to remember the song from Yakkos "nations of the world"(I could only do like 1/4 of it ).

[lcatino]

I love Animaniacs! I remember watching it after school & laughing my ass off!

I really haven't watched any American animated shows in recent years, with the exception of Family Guy, South Park , and Futurama.

[Shampoo]

What?!
No American animated shows that teach the young'uns??

What about Venture bros??
:

I dare you to name me another show
that can boggle the mind w/ perplexing arguments
like whether Smurfs are mammals or monotremes,
demonstrate what a skinner box can do to a young
impressionable mind, or remind you
to check for testicular torsion.

Not to mention point the obvious, that Bowie is music
GOD and Stars Wars pwnz Star Trek.

[crackpot27]

I agree that cute, fun, AND educational no longer seem to come as a total package. But there are some cartoons I still like (there is of course no education basis to any of them )
Codename Kids Next Door, Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, Shoalin Showdown, Avatar: The Last Air Bender, and occasionally Courage the Cowardly Dog. I like Family Guy, but because of it's content...it's not a cartoon in the general sense to me

[Tabbykitty]

There are definately a few shows out there that are still quality, Venture Brothers being a huge one, Billy and Mandy as well, and South Park. Also Drawn Together, if you just like messed up stuff lol.

But the other offerings, like Simpsons, Family Guy, and American Dad have just gotten staler over the years, and some (ie Family Guy), have never been as funny as they were before they were cancelled initially. And as far as the stuff on CN and AS...ugggh. Shows like squidbillies and assy mcgee make me want to throw large objects through the TV set.

Perhaps there was just a bit of a golden age for american animation in the early 90's...we had Animaniacs, Freakazoid, the Batman animated series, superman, heck even Earthworm Jim, Ren and Stimpy, Johnny Bravo, Dexter's Lab, and a slew of shows on Nickelodeon that were actually good.

[Penguinton]

Oh heck yeah the quality of American animation went down. There are still a few gems but the majority is just utter crap. I still enjoy Fairly Odd Parents, Billy and Mandy, Venture Bros, and heck even Chowder amuses me once in awhile. But as far as educational and fun I can only think of one series nowadays. The Mr. Men Show on Cartoon Network. And that's educational only in the loosest terms of the word. They apparently only play it in the early mornings. But it does makes my day when I get up to go to work. Oh Mr. Persnickety you so shouldn't hang out with Mr. Messy.

[majinuub]

Ah yes, Venture Bros. . Unfortunately, that's airing on CN which I stopped watching in months. Nothing on that network interest me, with the exeption of anime I can watch on DVD. Even the newest Batman series is a huge downgrade when compared to the previous installments.The last good show that came from nick was Avatar, but I'll give the new X-men series a chance.

[blueheaven]

What?!
No American animated shows that teach the young'uns??

What about Venture bros??
:

I dare you to name me another show
that can boggle the mind w/ perplexing arguments
like whether Smurfs are mammals or monotremes,
demonstrate what a skinner box can do to a young
impressionable mind, or remind you
to check for testicular torsion.

Not to mention point the obvious, that Bowie is music
GOD and Stars Wars pwnz Star Trek.

I know I check my balls twice a day thanks to Dean and the Hank-inator.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BHKMCrDaHRY

How great is it that they actually have Hank reading to himself?

[Belldandy16]

YES the american cartoons are AWFUL now.

its like they think that unless its toilet humor, kids wont watch it.
true there are some that are very good (but they are few and far between).

[toonybabe]

No its not just you. Every animation on American TV right now is just trash. I am continually shocked by how horrible childrens programing is now. Its bland, politically correct, mindless, uncreative and sometimes disgustingly over-sexualized CRAP. And I don't count Simpsons, Family Guy, Venture Bros. or others like that as good examples of animation. They are basically jokes with a little visual stimuli. They can be very funny but they are not uplifting (and they are for adults). I never feel Good after I watch South Park or Family Guy.

The last animation I saw on TV that I could stand was the Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, but sometimes it got completely out of control and would lose its cohesion and charm. Of the more recent cartoons, I loved Dexter's Lab, Powerpuff Girls and Courage the Cowardly Dog.

I think it has something to do with our culture completely rotting. I don't think people use their brains anymore therefore there is no more creativity. If there are creative people in the animation industry they are not in control right now - that must be agonizing for them. For me, good animation almost always comes down to the storytelling and the characterization. And I really haven't seen anything that I like - even in the 3D animated movies. I think Monster House was the last one that I liked. Even Pixar is getting bland. American animated movies and shows are nothing but jokes strung together with a plot as an afterthought or an excuse to sell the joke. As for the dramatic American animation, its all recycled anime and repetitive, mindless action sequences with no point or purpose. I will hate to see how all these kids who are watching Hip Hop Harry, Bratz, The Winks, Ben Ten and Total Drama Island will turn out when they grow up. Holy crap, show them an episode of Pee Wee's Playhouse and their heads would explode. Maybe they will only turn out to be three quarters zombified - after all, they got to experience Harry Potter. I think it all ended when they took Looney Tunes of the air. Then it all started with Barney. The final nail in the coffin was Disney stopping production on all 2D animated features.

Is there anyone who works in the animation industry who knows what is going on? Because I don't. I know its not the artists/animators because I oogle their personal blogs and online portfolios all the time and their work is amazing. I wish I would see some if it turned into shows. It really does make me sad, but it motivates me to work my ass off in art school - to make sure my ideas don't die like the rest of the culture.

[blueheaven]

Honestly, you could say the same thing about anime. 90% of what's out there right now blows. Can you really tell me that anime has gotten better in the last ten years? I don't think it has. To attack Family Guy is pointless. It is what it is, and that is all it is trying to be. If a show's only goal is to make me laugh, and it succeeds, then it is a success. Sorry, but the show makes me laugh. It's infantile, simplistic, baudy, and it makes me laugh out loud. And South Park is more socially relevant than most anime out there today. So let's keep this is perspective. Animation has gotten worse on a global scale, not just in the states.

[Captain Haddock]

I'm tending to agree with blueheaven on this it is a global theme, I haven't seen a new american cartoon I liked in years and alot of new anime is formulaic dross churned out into what seem like prestructured plot molds designed to ensure the next anime was exactly like the last just even duller.

I also enjoy Family Guy/American Dad they're one of the few things that keep me sane sometimes and of course Southpark and the Simpsons are good as well. But none of these are new shows and they all started running back in the 90's the Simpsons in the 80's of course. So I honestly can't really think of a new American show I like. I guess it's what to expect when you have suits in boardrooms with executive control over the creative process.

With anime though despite the above, I still do like some new stuff coming out. I like Kon's work (though I realise it is an aquired taste) and I actually really enjoy bleach (yeah I know I'm late but heck I'm here now). Well I say that but the first 20 episodes are anime by numbers then the next 40 to 50 are amazing, but then it sinks back to anime by numbers with those crap bounts (hoping it will pick up again still watching). Anyway my point it there is still (some) good new anime coming out.

[transmet]

I have to agree as well that, to a certain degree, U.S. animation has suffered over the last few years. I wonder if it has anything to do with how economically feasible it is to pay for one or two higher quality shows versus several mediocre ones, as well as the fact that it ain't as cheap to have the animation done in Korea as it use to be. I'm now being told that studios are beginning to look elsewhere such as the Ukraine for better deals, especially for 3D CGI animation such as Star Wars: The Clone Wars (because not everyone can afford that Lucasfilm touch). A few video gaming publishers have already been using Ukrainian animation houses for a little while now.

As already mentioned, a lot of the better written U.S. animation out there is geared towards a more adult audience. I can taste a bit of irony in that, considering the fact that we're a nation of grown children (guilty!). Even some of the ones that are supposedly meant for kids have underlying adult themes that seem a little advanced for younger audiences. Samurai Jack (web only), Invader Zim (late night only) and Futurama (1:00 a.m.) are examples of shows that skirt the edge for any pre-teen viewers. The Grimm Adventures of Billy and Mandy, Courage the Cowardly Dog and The Misadventures of Flapjack (the only real current "kids show" I like) tend to have some troubling imagery as well. Of course, that just makes me love them all the more. A couple of other titles I like include My Life as a Teenage Robot (the only other Nick show I watch) and the now completely defunct Time Squad (can't even get it on dvd).

And yeah, I'll admit, I'm actually liking the new Batman: The Brave & the Bold series. It's very well written and more in-line with the actual DC Universe.

[toonybabe]

Bluehaven - I think you misunderstood me or I didn't explain myself enough. I partly agree with you. Family Guy and the other adult cartoons in its category are what they are. And I do think they are funny. But then I feel a little different than you. I do not consider these shows to be animation as an art form. You do not watch them for the plot, character development or themes or for the visual appeal of the animation itself. You watch them for the jokes, for the punchline. They have no other purpose. The only reason they are animated is to better illustrate the jokes. The voice actors could read the scripts over radio and the shows would almost have the same effect. Now I don't have a problem with this -I think laughing is important, but I do have a problem with the fact that these seem like they are the only kind of animated shows being made nowadays. I consider these shows second rate because they feed off of the creations of others or of whatever controversy they decide to pick apart for the duration of the episode. Its so easy to make fun of something or to satire something. Its easy to take the creations of others and tear them down to get a laugh or make fun of the absurdness in the world.

But its not easy to completely create something that has never been seen before in the world. I think its an incredible feat to be able to use animation to make someone feel joy/sadness/excitement/anticipation/etc or to use it to make an experience for someone that takes them out of their own reality. The differences between Family Guy and Snow White are astronomical. The differences between Venture Bros and Looney Tunes is astronomical. I even hold Ren and Stimpy as being infinitely better animation than every adult cartoon on air today put together.

Cartoons like Family Guy and South Park are completely negative. When I say "negative" I do not mean bad. Funny can be negative and it can be positive. Looney Tunes is funny in a positive way - its humor comes from its own situations/character motivations/plot and even the way it is animated (the movement of the characters themselves). Its humor is self generating therefore it is a positive process. Family Guy, the Simpsons and South Park, on the other hand, are examples of negative humor. They must have something to tear down, make fun of or smear in the mud in order to make you laugh. Most stand up humor is like this. The characters all have to be stupid, clueless, gutless, hypocritical or have neurosis to make the humor work. Name one character from a series like this that has positive qualities that make you laugh. There are none. Bugs Bunny makes you laugh because he outsmarts everyone. Peter Griffin makes you laugh because he's a lewd dumbass.

I like this kind of humor for the fact that it can be a great criticism of the problems/inconsistencies of our culture. In a more healthy culture it would have its place. But the adult animation of today is viscous in a way. It never lets anything be great. It tears down everything and everybody. People watch these shows and are addicted to them because they have an anesthesizing effect. They make you laugh at your problems or the problems of the world to make them seem not as big or as important. Or they make people feel better about their crappy lives by presenting characters who are more messed up than them. Its like our culture is a sinking ship, with everyone running around in a panic and about to die. The creator of Family Guy or one of the writers of the Simpsons would be the guy on that ship pointing and and laughing at everyone running around. "Oooo haha look that womans hair is on fire!" Or "Haha its so funny that that guy can't fit into his straight jacket!" If you think about it, its very sick.

But I watch Family Guy, Venture Bros, Futurama, etc like everyone else. Futurama is my favorite out of all of them. I watch them every now and then because they are funny. But I can't watch them a lot because I feel smutty and I start to get depressed.

So I just wanted to make that distinction and try to define my beliefs as to what I think makes good animation. When this thread was started and everyone posted to say "Ya everything sucks now but I love Family Guy" I got a little upset. I thought we were talking about Animation with a capital A, as an art form, not the visual equivilent of celebrity gossip magazines.

And I agree with you too, Bluehaven about the anime. Most anime is horrible too. I would even say most entertainment nowadays is bad - movies, tv shows - all of it.

[Shampoo]

Toony brings up a few points I wanted to
discuss and give my 200 Yen on.

First off, I agree that animation on a WHOLE has
gone down hill in terms of classic fluidity and characer design .
I think its a combo of many modern-hurdles: man-force, time, and
budget.

But to say Looney Tunes is on a different sophisticated
level humor-wise as say, Ventures, Futurama etc, is almost
absurd. They both use almost the same parody/satire
techniques- the latter being a lil more raunchy and
tweaked for today's crowd
So are we speaking strictly about animation or
jokes/punchlines?
Do peeps here remember vintage LT? Bejesus! O_O
Theres some episodes that cant even be broadcast anymore (banned)
for depicting a "jap" gibbering with 2 slants for eyes ,
trigger-happy rednecks, blackfaced characters, southern
slave-holders, angry Russians, flamer wrestlers,
and geez, the sex jokes- even jabs atp op culture and current celebrities.
God I loved Looney Tunes. LOL!



Children's programs; so far we've talked mostly
about TEEN and adult programs. There are still some
nice ones out there you just have to dig and sift thru
the crap.
I really like Foster's and Fairly Odd Parents despite
the Adobe illustrator jerkiness and stiff movements
but the design and character personalities were well established.
Dora is cute too (thou thats in the preschool-grade
school category.) I dont know if Disney even plays Kim Possible
but that was a aesthtically pleasing show, loved the stylizations!