Gone, dead, good riddens

[Joost]

http://www.nytimes.com/

http://edition.cnn.com/

http://www.bbc.com/

[cutiebunny]

I hate to sound negative, but someone will, if not already has, replace him. Killing OBL, like killing most of these schmucks, only makes them a martyr. People will rally around these figures and will be inspired to do more devious deeds to others in the name of OBL.

Obviously, it would have been better if OBL was captured alive so as to prevent him from becoming a martyr. However, during combat, you don't always have that option and it may have come down to choice of either killing him or allowing him to flee. I'd hope that the details of this operation will be told (because...we need another Hallmark movie, right?), but as with many things of this nature, the details may only be disclosed decades after most of us are long gone.

[Sky Rat]

People were already stepping up to replace him before he was killed, a whole series of terrorist attacks were recently thwarted that he had nothing to do with. But to not go after him simply because there are also others out there or out of fear that it will encourage retaliation is only giving terrorists permission to keep killing people. I do not see any choice but for him to have been eliminated, he was a mass murder and certainly would have continued planning attacks if we had left him alone. I can't say I find the people outright rejoicing over his death an appropriate response but I think what was done certainly needed to be done, and I'm glad he's not around anymore.

I'd be lying though if I didn't say I feel incredibly nervous right now. I live right next to Washington DC (can see the city from my office window right now) and my sister lives in NYC. So I feel particularly vulnerable about the warnings that there could be immediate retaliation from other terrorists.

[sensei]

I think the inability of the US to locate Osama bin Laden after 9/11, or even during the Bush Administration, advertised the nation as run by incompetents who could not defend itself against an attack even if it had been well advertised a month before it happened. The effort to get Saddam Hussein instead made matters worse, as he was an enemy of the Islamists, though many Americans assumed that he was bin Laden's right-hand man.

In my opinion, Obama has gotten several things right here. He promised in a debate with a dithery McCain that if he found out where bin Laden was, he'd order him killed, whether he was in Pakistan or wherever. Then as Commander in Chief, he ordered the man found, kept after the Intelligence folks to do it, got the information, looked it over several times to make sure it wasn't WMD garbage, and gave the order. People will remember that.

Plus he took out bin Laden's compound, not with a drone bomb but with real American soldiers, and with minimal civilian casualties. And he ensured a decent Muslim burial (though by even a liberal-minded reading of the Koran the man's soul is leapin' and jumpin' in hell). And at sea, to prevent any shrine popping up over his burial spot.

Yes, there will always be terrorism. Keep in mind, though, that this is a tactic, not an ideology. Lots of people can carry it out, for lots of reasons (anyone remember Oklahoma City?). I think the message gets across to lots of folks overseas: the witless clowns in the red-white-and-blue suits are retired, and America is back.

Unless we elect Donald Trump in 2012. In which case America won't need Osama bin Laden.

[Gonzai]

Ditto what Sensei said. Here here to Obama for finally
getting the job done.

My first reaction was sheer joy, then came the awful
feeling in the pit of my stomach. I am happy that they
finally accomplished something that should have been
done 9 years ago, however, I am afraid what the
retaliation will be.

Count down to December 21, 2012 - no??

[Eternal Squall]

In my opinion, Obama has gotten several things right here. He promised in a debate with a dithery McCain that if he found out where bin Laden was, he'd order him killed, whether he was in Pakistan or wherever. Then as Commander in Chief, he ordered the man found, kept after the Intelligence folks to do it, got the information, looked it over several times to make sure it wasn't WMD garbage, and gave the order.

I am not the biggest Obama fan, but he definitely should get some credit for making this happen. He did make a promise and delivered it. Really nice to hear "USA" chants pop out randomly at sports events. Though I am a little worried when I saw people taking to the streets and celebrating. I recalled after 9/11 many foreigners in other countries, taking to the streets and celebrating when the towers fell, gave me a bit of a shudder, but still a great moment to have the mastermind taken down. I hope this begins a movement that will allows our troops to come home.....

[iceman57]

I'd be lying though if I didn't say I feel incredibly nervous right now. I live right next to Washington DC (can see the city from my office window right now) and my sister lives in NYC. So I feel particularly vulnerable about the warnings that there could be immediate retaliation from other terrorists.

Greetings from Paris, in a country from good old Europe in top list of targets.
Almost lost an Uncle in 9/11 (he owns a industrial painting company and got a contract in the towers, an assistant was sick, they postponed their duty to the next days, towers were down...).

[ZombieBunny]

- Finally.

[Drac of the Sharp Smiles]

I think the inability of the US to locate Osama bin Laden after 9/11, or even during the Bush Administration, advertised the nation as run by incompetents who could not defend itself against an attack even if it had been well advertised a month before it happened.

Maybe, but then you have to look at the facts. The information that led to yesterday's successful kill of this madman had started to be collected while Bush was in office.... and they DID NOT SHARE IT. Many of the "near misses" that we've had trying to get BL were after we shared information with people who were supposedly our allies. Now when he finally turns up, as I understand it, he turns up in a town that is comprised mostly of retired military brass..... HMMMM.... It doesn't take much to do the math there yourself.

Mind you, I'm not trying to say Obama had nothing to do with this turning out as it did. Obviously, he WAS a key factor and he carried through with his promise. But it will irritate me if people want to credit this ONLY to Obama. It was not only him... the final chapter of the story arc just happened to happen under his watch.

As for people stepping up to replace BL, yes, there will be people. However, we have the chance of hoping that they don't have the financial backing that BL had. People forget this jerk came from money (hell, he inherited $80 MILLION at age 13), and I don't doubt for a moment that money was fed to the terrorists. As for being a martyr, sure he will be considered one by some people. HOWEVER, I think that the military made the PERFECT choice in immediately disposing of his body in the middle of the ocean where it will not be retrieved. Bravo! There is now nowhere for anyone to go to revere this jerk.

All the above said, though, I think we should take at least one day to be glad that at least one horrible person has been removed from this world. There will be others, but this one is NOT coming back.

[teggacat]

I think the inability of the US to locate Osama bin Laden after 9/11, or even during the Bush Administration, advertised the nation as run by incompetents who could not defend itself against an attack even if it had been well advertised a month before it happened.

Maybe, but then you have to look at the facts. The information that led to yesterday's successful kill of this madman had started to be collected while Bush was in office.... and they DID NOT SHARE IT. Many of the "near misses" that we've had trying to get BL were after we shared information with people who were supposedly our allies. Now when he finally turns up, as I understand it, he turns up in a town that is comprised mostly of retired military brass..... HMMMM.... It doesn't take much to do the math there yourself.

Mind you, I'm not trying to say Obama had nothing to do with this turning out as it did. Obviously, he WAS a key factor and he carried through with his promise. But it will irritate me if people want to credit this ONLY to Obama. It was not only him... the final chapter of the story arc just happened to happen under his watch.

As for people stepping up to replace BL, yes, there will be people. However, we have the chance of hoping that they don't have the financial backing that BL had. People forget this jerk came from money (hell, he inherited $80 MILLION at age 13), and I don't doubt for a moment that money was fed to the terrorists. As for being a martyr, sure he will be considered one by some people. HOWEVER, I think that the military made the PERFECT choice in immediately disposing of his body in the middle of the ocean where it will not be retrieved. Bravo! There is now nowhere for anyone to go to revere this jerk.

All the above said, though, I think we should take at least one day to be glad that at least one horrible person has been removed from this world. There will be others, but this one is NOT coming back.

Very Well Stated Drac I agree that Obama certainly derserves credit here, but Bush derserves just as much credit. Actually I'm somewhat surprised Obama had the balls to go through with this mission. To be honest the true heroes here are our Special Forces, Delta and Seals. Regardless, OBL is hisotry, or should we say fishfood.

[sensei]

Mind you, I'm not trying to say Obama had nothing to do with this turning out as it did. Obviously, he WAS a key factor and he carried through with his promise. But it will irritate me if people want to credit this ONLY to Obama. It was not only him... the final chapter of the story arc just happened to happen under his watch.

Agreed: just as George W. Bush can not be called "responsible" for 9/11 simply because it happened under his watch. Clearly there was fuzzy thinking on the intelligence level that began much earlier, and by any estimation Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., and especially Clinton must share the blame. But I do think that if Iraq had not been a distraction (and intelligence here was horrifically bad and unprofessionally handled), this closure might have come sooner.

But sooner or later, I'm glad to see it come.

[MyBaby]

#1 public enemy dead after almost 10 year search. Job completed.

[blueheaven]

Agrees with sensei.

"I don't know where he is and I frankly don't spend that much time on it" Bush

"But I do believe that we have to change our policies with Pakistan. We can't coddle, as we did, a dictator, give him billions of dollars, and then he's making peace treaties with the Taliban and militants. What I have said is we're going encourage democracy in Pakistan, expand our non-military aid to Pakistan so that they have more of a stake in working with us, but insisting that they go after these militants.

And if we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then I think that we have to act, and we will take them out.

We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al-Qaida. That has to be our biggest national security priority." Obama

Let's not pretend that Bush had the slightest clue where Bin Laden was. He simply didn't care. The operation that went into finding and killing Bin Laden did not start under Bush's watch. It began 8 months ago with an order from Obama to send a JASOC unit into Pakistan (where Bush had never sent troops) with the sole purpose of finding and killing OBL. Furthermore, the intelligence was gathered not through torture, but by simple interrogation, of a prisoner who had previously told people during the Bush admin. that he didn't know the name of Bin Laden's courier.

While the lion's share of credit goes to that JASOC unit for their bravery and swift hand of justice, let us not forget that if this mission had failed. Obama would have been the first one to take it on the chin in the media. In the end, as teggacat said, he made a ballsy decision.

[Captain Haddock]

There was massive risk involved in this mission and it wasn't just a matter of it being under obama's watch.

Firstly he actually put American troops on the ground, this was a huge political gamble in itself and could very easily (and nearly looked like it would for a moment) become another infamous Blackhawk down situation. This would almost certainly have been the final nail in the coffin of Obama, and I'm sure you'd be looking at another Republican administration come the next vote.

Secondly he gambled (In terms of relationships with Pakistan) on not telling them about the mission. Lets not forget that if it had gone wrong or they had the wrong intel that would have been a howler of a diplomatic incident. As it turns out because it went right and its a howler, but now reversed towards Pakistan.

So ultimately yes intel has been gathered since the Bush administration, but the resolution was owned by Obama the decisions were his calls, it didn't just fall into his lap. He and the people behind him made it pay off perfectly for America both because of OBL being killed and with political capital as well.

[teggacat]

There was massive risk involved in this mission and it wasn't just a matter of it being under obama's watch.

Firstly he actually put American troops on the ground, this was a huge political gamble in itself and could very easily (and nearly looked like it would for a moment) become another infamous Blackhawk down situation. This would almost certainly have been the final nail in the coffin of Obama, and I'm sure you'd be looking at another Republican administration come the next vote.

Secondly he gambled (In terms of relationships with Pakistan) on not telling them about the mission. Lets not forget that if it had gone wrong or they had the wrong intel that would have been a howler of a diplomatic incident. As it turns out because it went right and its a howler, but now reversed towards Pakistan.

So ultimately yes intel has been gathered since the Bush administration, but the resolution was owned by Obama the decisions were his calls, it didn't just fall into his lap. He and the people behind him made it pay off perfectly for America both because of OBL being killed and with political capital as well.

yes indeed, its great to have you back online C.H.