Why are vets so evil?

[moonrabitt]

Not sure why it keeps happening to me, but I keep meeting evil vets.

One of my shar pei puppies was sick (vomiting for like three days, so he got skinny, it was hard for him to stand up) we took him to the vet, they charged us $400 to keep him for ONE day and just give him food through these plastic tubes and do a fecal test. They call us today and said "we need to put him down, he has parvo". So we race there, and they tell us all this b.s about him "suffering" him not "moving" that he says we should put him down so he does not suffer, because he had not goten better, blah blah. i tell him I'm not going to kill my dog and that I want to take it, so he says "maybe you should leave him here a couple days, do blood tests, blah blah" Talking to 2 of the workers, one said he had strong parvo, the other that he had a bit of parvo, the test results read "weak parvo" . I just got my dog, brought him home, called a "human doctor" I know, he prescribed something, I gave it to the dog, he got better within hours and still is a bit weak but he is getting better.

Same vet, told me the same thing about "putting down" another dog, and that dog is still alive to this day cause a human doctor helped.

Seems like lately vets just care about money. How the heck do you tell someone to kill their pet without giving them a blood test first? its so horrid how people are lately, money hungry, its a LIVING creature, I'd rather have him with us then die without even trying, and now I prey he gets better

[Rekka Alexiel]

Wow, sounds like you've got one seriously twisted vet. I'd stop going there altogether and find somebody else. There has to be a better vet near by!!

It's such a hard thing to put an animal to "sleep". I had to be in the room with my 18 year old cat when he was put down because my mom couldn't do it. We got him when I was in 3rd grade. Of course, the vet was honest when he suggested putting him down because he was old, sick, had a collapsed lung filling with water or something, internal organs shutting down--he was literally hanging on by a thread. So in that case, I knew it was the right thing to do for him, to stop the suffering. It still doesn't make it easy to watch the life drain out of your beloved pet that you've known for much of your life.

And for a so-called vet to do this to an animal that would otherwise be fine if given the right treatment is EVIL, even more so if money played an added incentive. There really ought to be some way to report him to the authorities or somebody. Who knows how many animals he's killed and families that miss their beloved animals...!!!

[moonrabitt]

I know, its sad seeing a pet pass away, my shar pei passed away today at 6pm...but he was surrounded by family and faught for every second, I love and will miss him, but its the cycle of life :/

[JWR]

I am sorry that you lost your pet in such a way but I am glad you were able to fill it's last moments knowing it was loved.

[tex-chan]

I'm so sorry for your loss, moonrabbit. I agree with JWR's comment. It's wonderful that at least your beautiful puppy had the love of his family around him when he passed away. And you also know you did everything you possibly could to try and save him. I wouldn't have given up, either.

I am also sorry that you had such a negative and hurtful vet experience. I've had some terrible vet experiences, too ... but, with my current pets, I've been really lucky in finding a vet who is compassionate, caring, and kind -- both with animals and people, too. My previous bad experiences make me value my current vet even more.

I hope that you are able to find a much better vet to care for your remaining pets. I don't think they are all evil, but the bad ones really can make life miserable.

[Drac of the Sharp Smiles]

As someone who works for a vet, I'm guessing we're not hearing the whole story here..... I am very familiar with situations where owners only hear half or less of what we have to say when their pet has a problem (and frequently NONE of what we say when the pet is well and "only coming for vaccines").

First thing that stands out is that you can't diagnose parvo through a normal fecal test alone. If they DID diagnose parvo, they either did a very specialized test, or other tests you're not mentioning were involved.

Second thing that stands out is that vets don't "just give food through plastic tubes". What you're actually talking about is supportive care, which can include force feeding an animal that needs calories, but which usually also includes fluids of some form and/or other medications/treatments. Also, fluids CAN be given under the skin for dogs and cats, so just because you didn't see an IV line doesn't mean nothing else was done.

Third thing is that it is 100% illegal for a "human doctor" to prescribe medications for animals, just as much as it's illegal for a vet to prescribe anything for a human. Some medications can be used in both humans and animals, some absolutely can NOT and will make one or the other VERY ill, and even more have completely different effects when used in animals versus when used in humans.

Lastly, there is one and ONLY one treatment for parvo, if your dog truly had parvo.... that is SUPPORTIVE CARE. Basically, helping their body not die while it fights off the disease. It's not care of a level that a regular person can give at home. I have helped treat dogs with parvo and there is NO MEDICINAL CURE FOR PARVO AT ALL. Any of this nameless medicine a human doctor illegally prescribed for your pet may have seemed to help if it suppressed some of the symptoms... that could fall under it acting like supportive care, but "a little medicine" will not solve a case of parvo on it's own.

One thing that is very important is to know that if your dog really DID have parvo, every other dog that was in contact with your dog was endangered, as well as every other dog that came in contact with YOU after you were in contact with your dog, and every other dog that crossed through your yard and stepped where your dog eliminated. Parvo is very contagious and can be passed both from dog to dog, as well as from dog to dog through a human's interaction with each animal individually. If you were in contact with any other dogs or allowed any other dogs to come to your house while the infected dog was still there, you really need to tell the owner(s) about the risk their pet(s) was/were in so they can appropriately monitor their own pets. Same for if you know any ferret owners who were in contact with your dog. You should also clean every area of your house (that your dog was in) with strong bleach and leave the bleach sit on surfaces for something like 20 minutes before wiping it away. Bedding should be thrown away or, better, incinerated.

After the above, I'm sure I'm lumped in as an evil vet too, but the bottom line is that I do care. I also care a lot about seeing lousy vets out of business because every time someone goes to a lousy vet, the GOOD vets all get blamed too.

If your vet really DID NOT care for your animal properly, you can contact the AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association) or the ASPCA (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) and, even better, find your local VMB (Veterinary Medical Board) and contact them about the veterinarian in question. Have your veterinarian's name and licence number. It's a good idea to have complete copies of your pet's medical records -- by which I mean the copy of the doctor's notes themselves, plus copies of the results of any and all tests run, NOT your receipts -- unfortunately, best would be to have a followup second opinion from another veterinarian, showing that the first one negligently misdiagnosed the problem, but that's not possible now. However, it might be possible for a second, uninvolved veterinarian to review the medical history and advise you, post mortem. Remember, vets always note when owners DECLINE testing. It will be hard to make a misdiagnosis case for yourself if you declined diagnostic testing, unless you can show that the offered tests were inappropriate for further diagnosis of the signs the animal was presenting.

All that said, due to the highly contagious nature of parvo and the difficulty with keeping an animal alive through it, most vets do suggest euthanizing parvo victims. The vet that I work for DOES offer supportive treatment for it, but it is a horrible, horrible disease and of the cases I've seen come in with parvo, half don't live anyway. Which is not to say that you shouldn't try..... but then, that's why I work for this vet. If an owner wants to try, so do we. We're the good guys. The good guys are still out there, we promise. ^_^;

[teggacat]

moonrabitt, I was very saddened to hear of your loss,
as a multi-dog owner I really feel your pain.
That being said I also very much appreciate Dracs view/remarks as well....
guess I'm lucky, I've dealt with basically 2 main vets over the last
many years, and both are wonderful, skilled, devoted and genuinely caring,
still none of this lessens your loss and I am very sorry

[Princess Nadia]

Hi moonrabbit,

I just wanted to send my love and well wishes to you. I'm still heartbroken over the loss of my best friend two years ago.

Like you, I just couldn't give the go ahead to end her life even though it was clear her time was near. Sure, we could end her suffering but we would also rob her from days of loving from her friends. I won't go into details as this is your story and not mine, but from the way she acted in her final days, I know I made the right choice in letting her go naturally. Thankfully I didn't have to deal with unkind vets!

I know you did right by your friend! (I do have an inspiring tale of a neighbour's terminally diseased cat, who went on for another 6 years after the vets recommendation to put her down. She was very happy and you couldn't tell she was ill until you stroked her and felt how frail she was. Even though she had to be accompanied by a human 24/7, she still came to play with us in our gardens and loved life! LOL, we just let her owner have free run of our gardens too. We understood. That cat made me believe life would find a way.)

You cared even when the odds where stacked against you (and I'm glad I never had to witness such incompetence). You were a very good friend and I'm so sorry for your loss!

Best wishes!

[moonrabitt]

Thanks guys, its been a sad couple days lately, sometime I just feel like he is coming back. . . at least I have his brother and sister to keep us company, its sad how frai life is. . . it just shows how we have to live each day to the fullest....

========================
reply to: Drac of the Sharp Smiles,
well I told the story as well as I could... Basically we took him and the receipt we got back from the tests said "Fecal" test,next to it said Weak parvo,thats what the lady that charged us wrote. Im not familiar with tests, but he didn't get a blood test, just fecal, which is why I was upset when they said "put him down" without doing a blood test.

The vet was Chinese so the way he put it to us was that they would feed him through the tubes. . . (it was clear fluid)

I'm aware of the human doctor thing, said doctor is not practicing anymore since he is retired. Last time another pet was close to passing, he gave him medicine and said pet is stil alive. I dont agree with some medicine laws, some legal medicines now-a-days have horrible side-effects, death, feeling of suicide, so why are some other medicines not legal? politics....(sure it does not excuse it, but i had to try everything i could, i owed it to my puppy)

The only thing he said about the parvo was about putting him down....the vet did not really explain much else.

So since parvo can not be diagnosed through fecal, then was the vet just lying? I should really find the receipt and copy what it says here...maybe you can make sense of it, Im not a vet so i would not know.

No you are not an evil vet, but one that just says "we need to put him down" without much testing is clearly not looking out for the pets best interest.

thanks for your input, I'll clean everything with bleach just to be sure

[Gonzai]

Drac is 100% correct. Parvo is highly contagious, and if you had your puppy around his
brother and sister, chances are good that they have it as well. You should probably
have them seen by a vet before they start getting sick.

I am sorry to hear about your loss. It is always so hard to lose one of your babies.

[Goldknight]

Erm I'm in the veterinary field. I'm sorry to hear about your pup. Parvo is truly a nasty disease. I'd like to clear something up though as there seems to be some confusion on the testing. The parvo test is run on a fecal sample. The problem is with the terminology. I think most in the vet world associate a fecal test with checking an animal for worms, however the parvo test kit itself requires a sample of feces, not blood. The parvo test is a lot like a pregnancy test. In the pregnancy test you urinate on a stick and wait 10 minutes. Then you look at a test membrane for plus or minus symbol right? Well on the parvo test you add the fecal sample that has been mixed with a reagent and wait about 10 minutes. What we're looking for is blue dots on a membrane. One dot represents a weak positive and the other a strong positive. What they're measuring for is the level of parvo antigens in the pups sample. So it sounds like they did the test correctly and confirmed the parvo virus. As was already mentioned, supportive care is the only option with parvo. Fluid therapy, sometimes a blood transfusion. I had a parvo pup several years ago who almost died. We ran her blood everyday to monitor her blood counts. Then we had read an article that the drug Nupugen which is used on AIDS and cancer patients has been known to help parvo pups. So I ran to the human hospital after calling it in, gave it to my pup while it was in the isolation unit of the hospital, and her blood count immediately improved. Basically the purpose of the blood test is the monitor how the animal is responding to supportive care. It's like you said though, medications are tricky in that they're only approved for use in certain species. Nupugen was a human drug, but because the vet called it in we could use it. It still isn't a widely accepted treatment for parvo or any other diseases in vet med for that matter. Most of the time this disease is simply a 'wait it out' thing and it breaks your heart because you know they're suffering. I did want to agree with everyone on how contagious it is. Any animal that's hospitalized with parvo is always put in isolation and the medical staff must wear protective clothing in and out of the isolation room. We walk through buckets of bleach in order to decontaminate our shoes. Again, I'm so sorry to hear about your pup.

[JWR]

I would expect that a lot of the problem is a lack of clear communication on the part of the Vet so I would say that your best bet is to check around a lot and find a new Vet who you will feel you can trust more even if it means going to another town.

In my own case I had lost faith in Vets after a bad experience that cost the life of one of our cats. It took me a long time till I found one I could give complete trust in and as it is I drive quite a ways to bring my "children" to her. I even this year have arranged to have my daughter bring her cat to this same Vet.

As far as Parvo in dogs, my brother had a golden retriever pup that came down with it. It took quite a while and a lot of money to save him. His Vet was upfront as to the costs as well as the fact that the pup even with the best supportive care might still not make it. My brother was given the "option" of putting it to sleep but chose to make the attempt that proved successful but costly.

[Drac of the Sharp Smiles]

The parvo test is run on a fecal sample. The problem is with the terminology. I think most in the vet world associate a fecal test with checking an animal for worms, however the parvo test kit itself requires a sample of feces, not blood.

Exactly. Which is why I said a "normal" fecal test, as opposed to something more specialized. It occurs to me that, depending on the area of the country you're talking about, there might be different tests more readily available. It's very rare to see parvo in this area (northeast), so most vets don't even carry parvo test kits. It would be something sent out to an external lab. Further south, I've heard that parvo is a bigger problem.

That's very interesting about the drug, Nupugen...! Do you have any links to papers about using it to help parvo patients? I'd love to show them to the doctor here. Though parvo is rare, we still do see it, and it would be amazing to have something else to use to combat it. It's always puppies that have it. It's so miserable.... >_>;

[Goldknight]

I don't have the article anymore as it was so long ago that we read it. However if you google neupogen and parvo you'll get tons of sites with info.

[moonrabitt]

Thanks for the info Goldknight. . .And again for everyone for their well wishes.

I've been to other vets and they have been wonderful, didnt have a problem until I met that vet.
I'm going to have to look around for a good vet so I can take the other puppies to get checked.