Business is Business. And Friends are Friends.

[jenn-b]

And you can be my friend....but only if you spend money with my business.

I've known this is the case with dealers for quite some time - and maybe not in such harsh layers as that, but I am genuinely irate at the ongoing crap from one dealer in particular. I realized a few years ago that money talks with certain dealers. If you are not willing to fork over a liver, then why would you even get a nod in your direction.

Did I spend quite a bit with said dealer? Hell yes! And I am happy with every piece that I purchased. But with the last lot that came my way, I was bitterly shown that if they knew you wanted a specific piece *mind you, not necessarily rare or difficult to find* they were going to gouge you for it. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to turn the tables and get some artwork that they would have certainly charged quadruple for, but circumstances played such that I was able to get them at a pittance.

Aside from the gouging, they actively participated in separating genga, douga, and layouts. All of which would be included for the given price by any other dealer. ANd all of which was implied to be part of the payment sent to them. Yes...this is one of my ultimate pet peeves....the breaking up of sets. Drives me batty frankly.

But times are tough. You would think that they would be a little more flexible. But no. Their jerkiness continues. I'm glad that I washed my hands of them a long time ago. I'm ranting on behalf of a friend that has been SEVERELY Taken advantage of. Time and again. And I know that she wanted to believe the best in them. Unfortunately...it doesn't exist.

If you think that you are just a dollar sign in someone's eyes....chances are, you are right.

/rant

[Gonzai]

Woah!!

Gawds I love you girl!!

[cutiebunny]

Not sure if we're thinking of the same people, but I've noticed this for several years. I thought it was rather funny that, when I spent a lot on artwork through them that they'd send me something for Christmas. But once I started pulling back simply because I moved on to shikishi, I never got so much as a holiday e-mail from them.

[animeobsessed]

Can't imagine who you are talking about....

[Matt]

Please share so we can all avoid them

[graymouser]

As the title suggests. Do not mix business with pleasure. Perhaps since I own my own business I see things a little differently.

I well aware that there are dealers that will give special deals or allow special arrangements for regular customers, and then stop if the spending drops below a certain amount of money. I think people need to realize that the specials, cards, or first choices are not necessarily a reflection of friendship or lack thereof. It is simply a sign of a business relationship. I think that the best thing is not to take this personally. This is a common practice in any business. It is why big volume buyers get lower rates on merchandise. Walmart buys from suppliers at a high volume and can negotiate cheaper prices, which then gets passed on. It even occurs in insurance (especially health insurance). Unions, large corporations and even governments can negotiate huge discounts for their members/employees/citizens that a small business owner can never negotiate for their employees (lets not even get into the cost of buying individual plans). The more you have to spend, the more a corporation, small business, or dealer is going to go out of their way to maintain the relationship with you. Knowing the dealer/owner personally does not mean it is still not a business relationship. Many business send Christmas cards and other goodies to their top customers.

This is not to say that you can't have a friendship with a business owner or dealer. You certainly can. A question to ask yourself is do the two of you go out and have fun together doing things that are completely unrelated to anime artwork. If the bulk of the time you are relating to each other is while doing business (buying anime artwork), then it is a business relationship. If the bulk of the time you are relating to each other doing non-business activities/communications then it is more likely to be a personal relationship.

As to another point that was made, the best way to stop from being gouged is to simply not buy from someone when they are doing this. Hopefully the seller will learn and start to back off (by either lowering the price, having a sale or even accepting a lower offer). I think some collectors allow themselves to be manipulated into overpaying in the hopes that they will continue to get special treatment. I feel this is a big mistake. Only spend what you feel comfortable paying. Sometimes what the two of you consider a fair price is very different and it results in no deal. If both parties agree it is a fair price, then both will benefit from the transaction.

Now I will agree that I dislike the practice of separating sets (cels from their matching dougas or genga sets) in order to increase profits. If the dealer received them as a set then I think they should be sold as a set. Even so, I realize this is more of a personal philosophy than anything else. There are many common practices in this hobby I do not personally agree with. I am certainly free to express my views as I see fit, but that is not the same thing as insisting that someone else conform to my way of doing things. The dealer is free to sell what they want on their own terms - even if I do not agree with them. Like with price gouging, the best response is to simply not buy from them when they are doing this. It sounds like you have spent a lot of money with some of these dealers, let your money do the talking for you. This is perfectly acceptable in a business relationship. Depending on the history between the two of you, you can always make a counter-offer for the full set if you are pretty sure what they are splitting a set.

[cutiebunny]

Do not mix business with pleasure.

I think that that's the problem - The line was skewed, and not solely because the buyer hoped to establish a long term friendship with the sellers but that's what the sellers appeared to want as well.

It's one thing to be on the seller's short list, and to be solely contacted whenever new items arrive that might interest the buyer, or when the seller may be making a trip to a convention in order to entice the buyer to show up to buy. It's another thing when the seller seems to go out of their way to cater to you, and asks that you do the same for them when they're in your neck of the woods.

My moment of realization happened when I was sitting at dinner with the seller in Japan, and after they had a few drinks in their system, they rattled off about how "rich" I was to other, unrelated people.

Dollar signs indeed.

[jenn-b]

GM, I do understand the concept of selling to make a profit - I have my own business as well.

That is not really what I was trying to get at. In this particular situation, the dealer manipulates you as a "friend". "We went out of our way to get this for you....What do you mean it's not something that you want?..."

Did you ask if I wanted it? Did you tell me it was even a possibility? And now you want me to pay $$$$ for something I don't even want in the first place? All because I am your friend and that's what I should do???

And yes...that exact scenario has happened several times to me. Sorry...I won't be bullied into purchasing something because if I don't it will "hurt my feelings".

Now mind you, I have not dealt with them in a LONG time. I just couldn't justify their everyday prices. And no, there are no discounts for being a friend. That NEVER happened. And I understand that as a business situation. But what chaps my ass is when I stopped buying is when I was no longer considered a friend.

[graymouser]

I see. I was under the impression people were misunderstanding that having a friend-ly business relationship with a dealer is the same thing as being friends.

I agree that a dealer trying to get a collector to buy something they do not want or trying to get more money from them because they are a "friend" is inappropriate. Friends do not manipulate each other for profit. There a few dealers that I do a good amount of business with. I have friendly relationships with them, and it is fun to shoot the breeze with them on other topics. That does not mean I will ever buy something that I do not want from them. I am pretty sure that they are aware of this because I will always walk away from a cel I don't want - even if I am being given a first look opportunity. Not every purchase made by a dealer is guaranteed to sell for a big profit. It is an inherent risk of the field. The dealers that I have good business relationships with know what kind of artwork I like and contact me whenever they get something along those lines. One in particular is so good at knowing what I like, he is kind of scary. I think he knows my tastes better than I do. Even so, no one has never implied that I should buy something I do not want. Attempting to manipulate me to do otherwise will not result in a sale. If they want to cut me off because I don't buy at every opportunity, then I consider that their loss. I may not buy something this time around, but I may buy something next time. Burning bridges is not a good long term business plan.

I am a little curious. Could it be that this dealer is not a native English speaker and is using the word "friend" in a different way/context than how it is used in the United States? The reason I ask is that (friendship aside) it just does not make good business sense to try to manipulate a buyer in this manner. Most people (myself included) resent being emotionally manipulated. A dealer that behaves this way is shooting himself in the foot.

Although no dealer has ever tried to manipulate me using friendship, I have had some try to manipulate me in other ways. A big one is telling me that Collector X was really interested in Cel Z so I should buy it before Collector X has the chance to come back with the payment. .... Seriously?!?! Whether another collector is interested in the item has nothing to do with my decision to buy it or not. I am not trying to compete with anyone, and I resent the attempt to rush me into a snap decision. Unless I already plan on buying the item, giving me that line is likely to make me walk away from the deal. I hate rewarding bad behavior. Not only has that line made me walk away from cels, it has made me walk away from many other items - including cars.

[Startyde]

Graymouser is my hero, per usual.