just. . .

[magician]

I want to put my 2 cents worth in here.

This situation is unfortunate. I don't like airing dirty laundry like this in the forums. I have in the past only as a response to individuals making private dealings public. This situation involves 3 people fighting publicly in the forums, in multiple threads, in multiple sections. I put a global post up several months ago addressing flaming. You can read it here.
http://www.anime-beta.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=11161

This post says that

"If the same individuals keep showing up in locked threads, I will deal with them on an individual basis."

The staff here failed. We had these threads going on unchecked and we didn't lock them. This was brought to my attention thru a PM from a member asking me to take action. Otherwise we still probably would not have seen the problems. We failed, but that does not excuse the 3 primary individuals in these threads. I have brought this up with the moderators and we will be paying closer attention now.

Anyone who has been a member here for any length of time knows my stance on flaming and non-constructive bickering. Newer members may not have read the flaming post, but I hope the majority of the active older members read it. I'm not going to play favorites here with long tenured members, nor am I going to focus only on newer members who are still learning the boundaries here. That post applies to everyone.


As for the Animanga thread, I locked it because it was directed at Yann. Since I own the domains anime-beta.net and anime-beta.com, I will be the one contacted should Yann, or any individual get offended enough to seek legal action. Animanga is a business, while Beta is a forum. I don't want to have to take Beta down because of a lawsuit, nor do I want all Beta members to lose the ability to do buisness with sites like Animanga because of a thread or two.

I respect the desire to try to help improve the cel community, but no one at Beta can do anything to affect change at Animanga. I suggest that the subject should be brought up in the Animange forums.

It may look like we (I) am suddenly getting heavy-handed, but I don't want anyone to be afraid to speak their minds. No one has been banned, suspended, or punished, and no threads have been locked purely for questioning the staff here, and no one ever will. I get a lot of PMs complaining about threads or individuals and try my best to appease everyone, but I am going to end up offending someone along the line. I'm sorry, but that's how it works dealing with 200+ active members. The bottom line is that everyone has to follow the rules here, and those who don't will be called for it. Newbie or not.

-M

[kisara]

This was locked. . . then not. But thanks to both of you. That's all I really wanted. Clarification. I think a lot of us around here were just very unclear as to what the "lines" were anymore. That's all.

This helped.



Thanks,
Katie

[monkeyboy]

As a old-timer here at Beta, I can tell you the Anime-Beta board was started because of some hurtful interactions on a long gone DBZ board. Beta was created to be a fun place to discuss our collective passion of cels and collecting. Not to flame/name-call each other.
I know freedom to express opinions are far more tolerant here at Beta. Just when they get too personal. Come on as adults, we all know that! So lets not go there. Please take the time to re-read the rules.

There have been a few bumps along the way over the years, but they have all worked out. Some times good some times not so.

Beta keeps growing and changing. It's a computer home for many of us (more so for Cloud). A welcome fun place to chat, I think that's why we all enjoy our virtual family.

So one big



Your daily affirmation from a monkey.

[weyrlady]

I'm sorry for my part in the Escaflowne thread. I don't believe I was flaming, but I realize I could have kept my mouth shut.

However, I do want to say that something in the whole interaction posted rubs me the wrong way. I dislike the idea that all disagreements and arguments should be done behind closed doors. That reeks of denial and repression, both of which are signs of an unhealthy community. I much prefer to have everyone up front and open in their dealings with people-- I've had more than one bad experience with people talking behind my back, and I'm certain I'm not the only one here who can say that. We don't want Beta to be the sort of place where no one ever knows what some one truly thinks, do we? If it becomes custom to say one thing in public and another in private, how can we ever trust each other as a community?

*steps off soap box and tries not to hide*


EDIT: grammar

[kittens]

Ok..... Now I understook what is going on.....

I am pretty sad what happned

Also I would like to point out one thing and I hope this does not cause flames and I do hope that I would not offend anyone.....

I totally agree with weyrlady..... I think it is healthy to discuss over some topics and I think that accepting disagreements is very healthy.

I do hope that everything will be better.....

[Cloud]

I'm glad we agree. You and your weyrlady.

[Gonzai]

Okay, time for me to post on this. I feel somewhat
responsible for what has happened. A few months ago
we had some problems with flaming, thus Magician made
his post, and all the mods and admin came to a decision
to break up the threads and each mod that is assigned to
the thread would be responsible for moderating it. Obviously,
I failed miserably in a few of my sections.

As many of you know, I travel extensively in my job. I have
been out of town in New York for the better part of the last 3
months. I try and get online whenever possible, but my time
is limited, so I haven't had the time to go through all the threads
like I should. I am not making an excuse for myself,
actually quite the contrary. I should have let the other mods
and admin know I was going to be gone so that they could have
kept an eye on my sections for me. Believe me, I will definately
do so in the future.

Had I done my job properly, I would have squelched this way
before it went as far as it did. Uende and IGWT and myself
have been friends for a long time, and I can feel their pain.
However, I can see why things were handled the way they were.
I can be very passionate myself about certain things, and have made
posts that sometimes I find myself regretting. It is at this point,
that I will step back and take a few days away from beta in order
to cool off and clear my thoughts.

I guess I don't see this as a punishment as much as a cooling off
period. Time for all involved to take a deep breath and walk away
for awhile. It is too easy to get soo upset at others that you say
things to defend yourself and just keep fanning the flames. As this
progresses, others watching step in and make comments and it
turns into an all out war. I have seen it happen on other forums, and
I have seen it happen here as well.

Kisara, you of all people I think would understand this. I can
remember a time you were going to leave beta cause you were
hurt by what others had said. We don't want any of our friends here
being hurt or upset by what is said in posts. I am sorry for IGWT
as obviously he was hurt by what was said. As I said before, had I
done my job properly, it would have never got to this point. Gomen
guys, I promise to do better in the future.

Just know that I love all of you here. You guys are all my family.
I have been with beta for almost 3 years now, and I love each and
everyone of you. Many of you I have known since the beginning,
others are new, however, I try and interact with most everyone I
can, cause this place makes me happy. Magician, GK, and all the
other mods are fantastic, and I think they have done a wonderful
job at making beta something Sith would be proud of. A great place
to come and be with others who have the same obsession as we do.

You guys all rock!!

Thanks
Nida

[magician]

Healthy discussions, debates, and disagreements are fine in public. THe forums would get quiet without them. That's not the issue here and I can't seem to clearly communicate the difference between a disagreement and a flame.

Here's some of what I define as unacceptable:

1. Name calling. Nothing reasonable or constructive comes from it. It's childish, immature, and does nothing but exacorbate the situation.

2. Condescending remarks. These also do not positively contribute to any discussion or disagreement. They tend to put people on the defensive and draw discussions away from rational thought and towards emotional and un-constructive resopnses.

3. Directed insults. Should be self-explanitory. Doesn't contribute to thoughful discussions.

4. Patronizing tones or attitudes. Once again, this puts people on the defensive.


These are the primary things coming to my mind. I encourage discussions and disagreements here. The problem is that once a thread starts to degrade from disagreement to open battle, it rarely stops and recovers.


This thread lost it's original focus on the last pages, and discussion died once we stepped in and stopped the bickering. There were more than 3 people in that discussion, but the tone of the thread degraded. I notice that no one is continuing the original discussion which was interesting at its beginning.
http://www.anime-beta.com/phpBB/viewtop ... 0&start=60

This thread (along with others) also prompted complaint PM to me which reads in part "Several members are going to leave Beta due to this persons comments & flames." and "Beta is not the happy place it was. Please do what you can to reverse the damage."
I'm damned if I take action as proven by this thread. People are threatening to leave. I'm damned if I don't take action, as people are threatening to leave.

There are plenty of places online where you can go rant, call names, flame, insult, and spout off anyway you please. I'm just not interested in Beta being one of them.

[kisara]

Kisara, you of all people I think would understand this. I can remember a time you were going to leave beta cause you were
hurt by what others had said. We don't want any of our friends here
being hurt or upset by what is said in posts. I am sorry for IGWT
as obviously he was hurt by what was said. As I said before, had I
done my job properly, it would have never got to this point. Gomen
guys, I promise to do better in the future.

I do. And don't think the complete irony of all this is lost on me. But given time and some very reassuring words from y'all. . . .I stayed. And am so very glad I did.

That's what I was hoping this thread might do for everyone else: Allow us to get all these thoughts I know we're all having out in the open, dealt with and then we can ALL go back to what was. Instead of a bunch of people running-off in a huff, which was what was starting to happen.

I'll say it again. . . wasn't my intention to start anything. I'd just heard so many people saying things. . . but then not. Not HERE, where it matters most.

ANYHOOOOO. . . .



felt like a

[Baakay]

Gosh, take an hour off to clean up kitty boxes and see what happens.

First, a completely off the wall comment. Magician - "Godless Tyrant"?? Too funny

I just want to say thanks all you mod-types for allowing the clarification to be posted, and letting us respond.

As I told one of you privately, it's been my experience that the *most* damaging thing that can happen to a community is to have unsubstantiated rumors floating around. They just feed on themselves and get nastier.

Whether or not we wholeheartedly applaud how things were handled, it is healthy to get it out in the open. Communication is the key, and it's always difficult. We run into the additional problem here of being widely varied in ages, outlooks, backgrounds and cultures, so it's often hard to make your own intentions clear. By and large, though, I think we do mighty well.

Thanks again for posting the information.

[glorff]

Once again I seem to have missed everything going on around here

I would like to make a suggestion to improve the situation here at Beta. Part is simple, another part takes more work.

1) The changes that have been made in the interest of improving the board have unintentionally made it cumbersome and hard to keep track of what is going on. This is true for users and moderators. Reducing the number of categories will not reduce the number of threads or the amount of interest in any given topic. Many of our topics have not been used in months, but we all have to scroll thru all of them anyway. Unfortunately the end result is that the new Beta has topics assigned to moderators instead of the old AT LARGE system where a problem could be discovered by any one of the mods at an earlier stage and nudged back into line before it gets out of hand.I think that this thought is worth consideration.

2) I belong to another board where members award points to other members, both positive and negative. These points help the mods make sure no one is getting out of hand by raising a red flag on members that get a lot of negatives, but also those that give too many negatives. It also lets members that get into a bad situation have their good marks act as a buffer to show mods that it is unusual for them to be at issue. This board has about a thousand times as many members as we do, but it works well there.

Lets all work together to keep Beta the way we want it to be. I for one do not want to watch it slip away, but I find myself wishing for the old days quite often. This is nothing about anyone in particular, it just seemed simpler and smoother back a few years (even when everyone picked on me for not having a gallery for over a year). Lets try to get that back again.

Thanks

[Cloud]

That is a good explanation.

[Ashura]

After PM's and PM'ing a bunch of people. I still don't agree with the decision, but I won't publicly say anything harsh out of respect for everyone.

All I want to say is that I WANT Uende to stay and I MISS Gabe.




Ashura

[Cloud]

What would make you stop do not agree with the decision but he or she will not publicly say anything harsh out of respect for everyone? Everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

[Zag]

Okay, well, as I responded to Ashura's email, I have no idea what you are all talking about.
I must have missed that thread. Plus, I don't know who the people involved are, nor what a momo is. after attempting to read THIS thread without falling asleep, my only opinion is:

Hey, we're cel collectors! It's been scientifically proven we're smarter than average, so... we can avoid this type of thing. Let's do that! Yeah!

.. right, clue-less Zag signing off!