How do long-timers interpret these membership statistics?

[blueshinma]

Makes me want to come out from behind the lurker shield. And honestly I cannot remember when I joined, I guess I'll see it when I post.

I think 2006 was around the time I fell, lost my job, then left the big city and my cel collecting cronies. But I do remember around that time CG shows were taking over and cels became harder to find, all the scramble for new show art work shifted more toward paper. For me, it just didn't hold the same pizzaz.

Plus, I have no idea if this has anything to do with it, but around that time East cost conventions banned fansubs in favor of licensed shows. I kinda stopped going to them (perhaps I just got too old to fit in the rubber plug suit anymore ) Cons were always great for getting together and buying new stuff.

I still, lurk often though. and once in a while I still even buy something

[Keropi]

Well, some pretty talkative posters really cut down on their posting or stopped entirely in 2009-2010 so I'm sure that has something to do with it. The reduced posting kind of builds on itself. Everyone feels less like posting until even the most energetic posters are discouraged about posting. That's what happened on several boards I've been on.

I think it's also much harder to discuss sketch collecting than it was to discuss cel collecting back years ago. I could have brought up a number of topics for sketches but they could all have had negative consequences for bringing them up. There are often fewer opportunities to get the sketches from the show you want compared to how it went with cels so that kind of kills the discussion as well. Wow...I've seen five sketch sets from a show that came out 2-5 years ago. How much discussion is that going to generate compared to dozens of cels from a cel series?

Overall though I think the feeling of the Animanga board mimicked the way of anime fans in general. In the mid-1990s, there were few people who shared your interests so people tended to be nicer and more patient with each other. As time went by people started getting annoyed at each other and then they had a falling out from each other. That happens on every board, but it sticks out more on cel boards because members might be competing with each other and running into each other a lot. They also might both have their own websites.

Hmm...it does make one wonder how the decrease in posting about collecting anime production artwork affects new collectors starting up the hobby. I know one reason I started collecting was because so many people were posting about how much FUN they were having collecting.

[Sky Rat]

A lot of interesting observations have been mentioned. One thing that may have had an effect on membership rate may have been the death of Animanga.

This affected me...I wasn't a member here long ago, but I was on Animanga since 2003. When Animanga petered out I didn't realize people were switching over to another forum. With less going on on my cel radar I ended up just taking a long break from cels in general as I had a really lousy job at the time. 2006 is just about exactly the time I went on an extended hiatus. I didn't come back until 2009 because I had a better job by then, and once I could afford to start buying cels again I eventually found my way here. My personal finances were the biggest factor.

Although...I was in college when I started collecting as a lot of other people seem to have also been. I found the competitive nature of the hobby hard to deal with back then. My secondary reason for disappearing for an extended time was I seriously needed to mature a bit. I came back when I felt like the competitiveness wouldn't emotionally affect me anymore.

[star-phoenix]

Not sure about the reason behind the increase in registration in the past couple of years.
This is one piece of data I would REALLY love to hear about. Have you been able to get some data as to the average age of the new registered users versus the earlier registrations?
My theory is the more recent registrations have a much younger average age than the earlier registrations.

[animeobsessed]

Everyone has brought up some great points on the subject. I tend to agree mainly with Shampoo and Keropi...and Gonzai since I have nothing better to do either.

I joined after I was done with college and my girls were in their teens. I started watching anime with them, but I joined here b/c I loved anime and this was a place I could learn about cel collecting. Through this forum, I have made some awesome friends, better friends than I have living close to me. That is the main reason I stick around.

When I first started here there were groups of members that had specific series in common and threads would be about cels, the series, or just random stuff, everyone posting off each others comments, making jokes and basically having fun.

Sure there was also competition b/c several ppl wanted the same cel or there were bidding wars amongst members, but normally it blew over and everyone was ok again. Except after awhile there were members that this didn't go over very well and the drama began, members quit and the membership changed.

Now it seems hard to get a thread started, much less going for any length at all. If you ask about a series or try to start a thread, it tends to die quickly. The threads that have some discussion are the "new series for each season." My guess is b/c it's doesn't focused on one series, but any series that's in that season.

Personally, I don't feel as passonate about current series as I did with some series seveal years ago. My favorites still include Inuyasha, HNG, Kenshin, Gravitation, Shonen Onmyouji, which I can rewatch over and over (well, not parts of Kenshin). They haven't been replaced by any new series that has come out in the last couple years. In fact, I haven't had a real desire to buy anything from a newer series (except is 1 rilezu from Hakuouki, but 2nd season was a total disappointment).

Not sure of my point anymore, so I will stop.

[Nene]

I've just decided to look at some of the first posts I made in the first year or so of being here... the cynicism certainly wasn't there to start with but that's a good analogy for life I guess; you go into something fresh-faced and end up cynical at the end of it.

Joking aside, I think it's natural to take an enthusiastic giant leap into something new. But that enthusiasm probably won't last on such a high intensity for 8 years or so due to many reasons. I started collecting in 2004 and used to frequent Animanga after making my Rubberslug gallery. I joined Beta in 2005 and I can only presume I heard about it from Animanga as people were migrating over.

Looking at some of the stuff I posted back in the first couple of years after I joined, I was very open with what I collected and even discussed what I was going for on auction. I think it was just ignorance at the time, led by enthusiasm for collecting and an open-ness to share. But dare I say, you soon see the darker side to having an internet presence and take a step back when you know there are people out there who just hate you for your collection. Perhaps it took a few years for this to manifest and I took a more conservative approach after the first flame email.

Also, I think it probably took a couple of years at least to get past that screen of "people behind the posts". I remember reading a while back about how people communicate/argue online more easily due to not being able to see or even comprehend the person behind the text. In online communities I've been involved in, I've grown to see the people behind the posts and you tend to have a little more humility for it. That's not a bad thing but I basically treat people online how I would in person. I think that's partly down to experience though and how much you expose yourself to it. Beta was only my second major online community so I probably still had alot to learn about social etiquette online when I first joined.

This probably has nothing to do with the original post, just alot of observations about my time here. ^_^;

[Cordelia]

It's been a long time since there was such a rousing thread. I find myself posting less for many of the reasons stated before e.g. same topics, buying less etc. But I still lurk about and check this forum often.

I agree that it would be useful to look at the age of the members to gain more insight as to why they become less active. I was an active member of the cel community until I graduated and stepped into the working world. Real life took a toll and I didn't have money or energy to continue the hobby. So I took a hiatus of 3 years. Incidentally, when I switched to a new job I liked, the itch to collect came back strong. The last few years have been good but recently, there's nothing exciting in the market and I've began to slow down. Not to mention the last anime that I seriously liked was Bleach.....I think the decline of the anime industry is affecting our collecting habits as well.

I don't really understand why newbies require an invitation before they can join the forum; how well can you know someone online anyway? As far as safeguarding measures go, the previous method of asking for permission from the moderator seem fine. Perhaps we should revert to the old way if we want to encourage more registrants?

Anyway, I've enjoyed reading the posts on this thread....good to hear from so many after so long.

[sensei]

Have you been able to get some data as to the average age of the new registered users versus the earlier registrations?
My theory is the more recent registrations have a much younger average age than the earlier registrations.

That's an interesting hypothesis. Logically, this should be so: as long-time members age (some of us faster than others), new members should come in at a younger age. But I've noticed also a kind of maturing of the field. There's a very superficial "gotta have something from my fave show" emotion that gets many collectors started. ( me too) Then, as a collection grows and the skills needed to deal with conservation also (see the interesting thread Sui Kune started), it seems that many newbies simply drop out and go to another field of collecting that is less complicated. So I've thought it interesting that some of the new members are not green-eared students but fairly professional young adults.

When I go into the database again, I'll do a sampling. I need to compile a list of "active newbies" anyhow, as I want to circulate a questionnaire to this bunch too.

BTW, I did an "old-timer's" questionnaire and sent it to a sampling of the 107 Wise and Worthy Betarians. Is there anyone else reading or lurking who registered before 2/20/2006 and would like to answer five open-ended questions? (Answers can be short or anecdotal; personal info will be kept confidential; credit will be given in the final essay.)

[sensei]

I remember reading a while back about how people communicate/argue online more easily due to not being able to see or even comprehend the person behind the text. In online communities I've been involved in, I've grown to see the people behind the posts and you tend to have a little more humility for it.

That's a major issue, and one I'm hoping to take a good look at. Cel collecting is competitive to the maximum degree, as each item is not just rare, but unique. And there is a fetish resonance around many of them, because they are not just unique but A1 END "That Scene" images. And so ownership of such an item includes ultimate power over that moment in that anime. One would expect cel collectors to battle for such a piece without considering their rivals' feelings in any way.

A virtual community of such collectors would seem to be a place fraught with drama and flamewars. You can, after all, verbally defame the cursed antagonist who sniped you for THAT CEL without fear of receiving any worse than irritated replies on a flat screen, which you can read or not depending on your caprice.

And yet it is not so. Interesting.

[star-phoenix]

That's an interesting hypothesis. Logically, this should be so: as long-time members age (some of us faster than others), new members should come in at a younger age. But I've noticed also a kind of maturing of the field. There's a very superficial "gotta have something from my fave show" emotion that gets many collectors started. ( me too) Then, as a collection grows and the skills needed to deal with conservation also (see the interesting thread Sui Kune started), it seems that many newbies simply drop out and go to another field of collecting that is less complicated. So I've thought it interesting that some of the new members are not green-eared students but fairly professional young adults.

Hey sensei,

I sent you a question about this, but I will just post it here.
I read on some article that the average age of the convention goer has gotten younger. According to the article/observation (mind you this is not 100% confirmed) pre-2006 conventions, the average ages were college students compared to the 2009> conventions where the average age is 14-15 years old or high school students.
I think age and having a generation gap (did I just say "generation gap"? AH!) may play a role in the way the community is conducted on Beta now compared to before.

Also, I completely agree with you on your theory regarding the change in collecting mentality with more experience. My interests in collecting from 6-13 years ago significantly changed compared to now.

[sensei]

I read on some article that the average age of the convention goer has gotten younger.

I did a quick check of the most recently joined members, and did a special run through their profiles to check on ages. However, Anime-Beta does not require a birth date to register, and 40% of the new members declined to give one. So the question can't be answered definitively (and maybe Betarians might be made a little uncomfortable if I could answer it by using a public database that might also be available to identity thieves.)

But here's the breakdown for those new members who did volunteer birthdates. (To make things simple, I made the snapshot effective on the last day of 2010.)

0-19: 1
20-24: 7
25-29: 11
30-34: 6
35-39: 2
40+: 2

Mean: 28.8. Median: 28.

Pretty much as I thought. And these are entry-level new members, not a sampling of old-time members. The core of the new membership (82.8%) falls between the ages of 21 and 32.

At least among those who gave birthdates. Possibly those who declined to do so were were younger people who did not want to put themselves at risk by stating their age. And it's also possible that people lied about their age, making themselves older or younger than they actually are. But in any case the data doesn't document any significant numbers of high-school or even undergraduate college students among new members.

Possibly the animation art collecting field has distinguished itself from the core fan base of current anime? Certainly the best inventory and (IMHO) the best bargains come from series that were all the rage ten years ago or more. So perhaps as the inventory for more recent series becomes more difficult to find and less immediately eyeworthy, it's inevitable that this community would attract a more artistically aware clientele?

One able to see that a series that is "hot" and "just released" is not necessarily better than one that was produced in the 1990s? Or one able to see the visual pleasure in a sketch that helped create a CGI series, and not miss the bright colors of a cel?

Or...?

[iceman57]

You require a bigger statistic sample than only a list of thirty people.
If you are looking for efficient data, focus on a range of hundreds people filtered from impossible data (people over 99 years old and less than 4).
That'll considerably smooth the results and allow you to work with them as valid basis.

[ReiTheJelly]

Iceman: what is your graph representing? You seem to be missing several key features, such as a title and axis labels.

[iceman57]

Apologies, some of my good old thesis raw data work, uploaded as it. This graphic simply represents the filtered birthyears that Sensei's is studying these days.
Complete community range study (over 900 people with 400 usable data), X axis for birthyear, Y axis for amount. Result is a Gaussian curve.

[sensei]

I wish there were hundreds of people who have joined Anime-Beta over the past 15 months. Then I could approach the data in Iceman's way. But as it is, there are only 51. So I have to make do with the data I have and use a methodology that supplements objective facts with subjective interpretations from a variety of perspectives within the group.

The disadvantage: my results will have dubious relevance to the total proportions of people using the Internet to form virtual communities worldwide.

The advantage: it will have relevance to this particular community.

This is the essential difference between a demographic and a folk group. A folk group is a small number of individuals who share a common interest and interact with each other regularly enough that they recognize each other as individuals. In that case, ethnography is the proper approach, rather than a statistically valid survey instrument.

Nevertheless, I do annoy my fellow folklorists by counting beans that I think are there on the table to be counted. A habit gained by teaching technical writing at my university, where it was gospel that if you couldn't assign an exact numeral to an observation, it didn't really exist.