Some more Beta stats: Keys, Ibbys, Newbies

Post by **sensei** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:25 pm

I'm now at the stage of working with a very rough draft with a beginning, middle, and end. I have some academic work to do (paper grading for an online course I teach) so this will sit and cool off in my head for a few days, then I will get to work on making it cleaner and clearer. I'll be sharing ideas from it soon, and also contacting people whose posts from public forums I want to use.

Meantime I wanted to pass on an interesting issue I ran across as I began to look at my demographic data. As I mentioned before, I'd gotten data from a number of newly joined members (2009-present). They were "newbies," surely enough (though some were not new to anime art collecting, just to Beta).

I'd found 108 members who had been registered for five years or more and were still visiting and posting. In the draft, I played around with terms for referring to this group: old-timers, long-term members, senior Betarians, etc. Nothing worked.

Then there was a group of members who had joined in 2006, 2007, and 2008. What to call them?

Finally, I started referring to this 2006-08 bunch as "in-betweeners," IBs, Ibbys. That stuck for some reason and solved my other problem. The 108 Wise and Worthy Betarians now had to be "key members." In animation, the keys are drawn first, then the in-betweeners.

So now I had handles: Keys, Ibbys, and Newbies.

Now this is the noteworthy bit: I looked at who was doing what. I did bean-counts on who had started threads in the last couple of years. Keys started 69% of threads in the "General Production Art" section, and 60% in "Anything." Ibbys started 20% and 24% respectively, and Newbies started 11% and 15%. (In other words, Keys dominated both sections, but Ibbys and Newbies were a little more active in "Anything" which makes sense.)

Then I did a count on the last couple of years of the "Something fun" thread that has been going strong since Gonzai started it in June 2003. 67% of posts were by Keys, 21% by Ibbys, 11% by Newbies. In other words, in line with the thread start data. There's not a lot of data in the "Beta Awards Poll," but what's there is in line with both these sets of numbers.

So it looks at first as if Key members (old-timers, seniors, whatever we want to call them) are doing 60-70 percent of the activity on the forum, with In-betweeners (Ibbys) doing 20-25 percent and Newer members (Newbies) doing 10-15 percent. That would support some members' concern about how attrition of long-term members may be having a negative impact on Beta's health.

Then I noticed something else: when you counted not the posts but the individual members involved, then the percentages shifted quite a bit.

Numbers of individual people participating in "Something fun": 52% Keys, 34% Ibbys, 14% Newbies. Not far from a 50/50 mix of long-termers and newer arrivals. Then I took a typical day and looked at the status of all the people who had visited the site (but hadn't necessarily made a post). 53% Keys, 25% Ibbys, 22% Newbies. Again, close to a 50/50 split.

What I'm seeing is that on a day-to-day basis there are a lot more listeners than talkers. And also that Key members tend to make more posts per visit, but that when you look at the individuals posting rather than just the number of posts, the Ibbys and Newbies are more active than first seems the case. Interesting.

If people are concerned about the health of Anime-Beta, then it might be useful to generate some activities that would involve Ibbys and Newbies more fully and make us Keys take a back seat. It's clear that they will be the ones to step up from lurker or occasional status, while us garrulous old-timers drift into the wings.

Joost · Post by **Joost** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:12 am

Maybe a contest for only members joined after 2006 or 2008?

judged only by members joined before 2006

. Just a random idea

Xelloss · Post by **Xelloss** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:27 am

I never claimed to be anything other than a lurker. Most people probably don't even realize that I'm mostly still around and listening ^^;

- Karen

otakusin · Post by **otakusin** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:29 pm

Same here Xelloss, more a lurker anymore. There's times I want to respond but I have to remind myself of how little time I have to check back. I just don't have the time like I once did.

Sensei I like the ibby thing, that's when I joined Beta, collected years before joining and oddly lurked the forums almost as many.

Post by **sensei** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:35 pm

I was sort of vaguely thinking about the gallery open house idea, except focusing it more on Ibby and Newbie members and in some way organizing it so that it could be done easily in a week or so. The last one was tremendously useful for me, but turned out to be a lot of work. I managed to make it through the list, but it took a month, and about a third of participants never did get around to visiting mine.

One of the "key" principles I'm developing in my study is restitution: as anime art is unique, the owner of any given piece assumes a lot of karma, which needs to be worked off in some way that benefits other collectors. In the original Levi-Straussian formulation, primitive tribes make restitution by means of exchanging art/fetish objects, material goods, and/or women. In my analysis, the creation of an RS gallery handles the first, while the friendly discussion of who will bid or not bid (often taking place now in private) manages the second.

The woman part is tricky these days.

pikachu4eva: Look, I'm sorry I sniped you for that cel. I'd like to make it up. How about I send over three hookers to even the score?

gokuisgod: Uhhh, it may not be obvious from my screen name, but I'm female.

pikachu4eva: [sweatdrop]

gokuisgod: Send over three hot sweaty guys and I'll call it good. [hangs up]

pikachu4eva: Um, guys, I have really really bad news....

HSG 1: You traded all three of us for a cel???
HSG 2: Jeez, that's enough to make us all turn straight!
HSG 3: C'mon boys, we're outa here.

So anyhow there needs to be something in the deal that makes it enjoyable for both sides, especially for lurkers and occasionals. Maybe we need to hear more from them on what would be a reasonable social equivalent to the 3 HSGs.

pixie_princess · Post by **pixie_princess** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:40 pm

sensei wrote: One of the "key" principles I'm developing in my study is restitution: as anime art is unique, the owner of any given piece assumes a lot of karma, which needs to be worked off in some way that benefits other collectors. In the original Levi-Straussian formulation, primitive tribes make restitution by means of exchanging art/fetish objects, material goods, and/or women. In my analysis, the creation of an RS gallery handles the first, while the friendly discussion of who will bid or not bid (often taking place now in private) manages the second.

The woman part is tricky these days.

pikachu4eva: Look, I'm sorry I sniped you for that cel. I'd like to make it up. How about I send over three hookers to even the score?

gokuisgod: Uhhh, it may not be obvious from my screen name, but I'm female.

pikachu4eva: [sweatdrop]

gokuisgod: Send over three hot sweaty guys and I'll call it good. [hangs up]

pikachu4eva: Um, guys, I have really really bad news....

HSG 1: You traded all three of us for a cel???
HSG 2: Jeez, that's enough to make us all turn straight!
HSG 3: C'mon boys, we're outa here.
So anyhow there needs to be something in the deal that makes it enjoyable for both sides, especially for lurkers and occasionals. Maybe we need to hear more from them on what would be a reasonable social equivalent to the 3 HSGs.

How about a few generally easy on the eyes cosplayers for either side, or a choice of fan related artwork with an agreed upon pair by majority rules... Does this mean Goku x Sailor Moon? I think technically that was already taken care by some hentai series back in the 90's though.

iceman57 · Post by **iceman57** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:01 pm

sensei wrote:One of the "key" principles I'm developing in my study is restitution: as anime art is unique, the owner of any given piece assumes a lot of karma, which needs to be worked off in some way that benefits other collectors. In the original Levi-Straussian formulation, primitive tribes make restitution by means of exchanging art/fetish objects, material goods, and/or women.

Anime raw material now consider as valuable art on art market.
This sounds to be a restitution at its climax, generating a benefit to all existing collectors.

Post by **sensei** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:15 pm

It's a very broad issue in culture: people who own more of something naturally become the targets of envy and, if they do not respond in some way, anger and stereotyping. This can tend to make this hobby (or any other activity that involves accumulating goods) socially isolating. That was a clear theme in some threads that I visited, in which some collectors were reluctant to announce that they had acquired certain high-end items because of the fear of receiving hate mail from other collectors.

Beta has managed to hold onto some very lucky enthusiasts with strong collections by creating ways in which they can reciprocate in some other way, and let newbies and ibbys have their moments in the sun. (And justifiably so: I've always thought that a collection with a few very fine items is a better reflection of good taste than a big hoard of middling-to-low-end images.)

The "Something Fun" thread is a good example; the Anime-Beta Awards is another. I'm just wondering if there could be some additional activities that would be enjoyable to these groups?

kageneko · Post by **kageneko** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:58 pm

Might be interesting. I have always been something of a lurker and then I went to a sometimes vistor. I rarely see any discussions I wish to read or even discuss. Mainly I am still collecting but far less and I spend more time on my kids than here nowadays.