Online Sales Rules to Live By

Post by **JWR** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:33 am

It has come to my attention as a Moderator on RS that some are having problems with sales between each other during offer periods or other agreements. These have lead to strained and broken friendships and hard feelings.

Most problems can be avoided by following a few common sense rules. Treating each other with respect. Just cause this is a business deal between friends does not change things , treat it like you were buying from Amazon online.

First off , remember all should treat these as a business transaction and just cause one is dealing with friends DOES NOT CHANGE THAT FACT. You are entering into a contract in which both sides have responsibilities. Like any other business transaction done over the internet Federal & State Laws do apply and any things like accepting money and not shipping a paid for item can be prosecuted under Wire Fraud Laws in the USA and including Foreign Countrys.

1. If you find a cel you are interested in , contact the seller and get any questions answered BEFORE you enter into a contract.
Please do not assume you can set up such items as Payment Plans , Trades or other items after the fact. Also you may request a more High Rez Scan of the cel to be more certain of it's condition.

2. Once you put a cel on Hold with either full or agreed upon deposit in the case of payment plans , you have made the Commitment to Purchase the cel at the Price Agreed to. There is no backing out of a deal without the approval of the Seller no can the Seller suddenly change the price agreed upon. We all know sometimes unexpected things happen and Most Sellers will be understanding if you let them know quickly.

3. COMMUNICATE. All have access to the feedback links on RS, PM on Beta as well as email. USE THEM! Nothing causes more misunderstandings that lack of communication. This goes both ways between Buyer & Seller.

4. Accountability. If you say you will send payment by a certain date, Do So. If you tell a Buyer you will ship at a certain date, Do So. Use Tracking and Insurance to protect both parties.

5. Save all communication , don't delete emails till the transaction is complete and all are satisfied.

Gonzai · Post by **Gonzai** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:41 am

Thanks Joe!! Very Nice!

While we are on that subject, though, I am sending you
a pm on another deal gone bad that I think you might
find quite interesting.

duotrouble · Post by **duotrouble** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:39 pm

Nice rant.

I find it strange when people don't treat offer periods like business transactions. That's what they are regardless if the buyer and seller have known each other 20 minutes or 20 years. When it comes to money, friendships are obsolete. Don't try to take advantage of a friend's good will. It will come back to you two-fold.

I'm sorry to hear that you've had to listen to people complaining. I didn't think that was part of your responsiblity. Since there are technically no sales transactions on Rubberslug, if someone agrees to have a sale they shouldn't involve you or any other mod. I feel the same for the mods here on beta. They shouldn't be involved at all. They have nothing to do with it.

It's one of the reasons I typically only accept PayPal. If there are any disputes, there is an excellent record of who paid or didn't pay.

So my suggestion to people would be think about what kinds of payment you'll accept prior to starting up your offering period. If you accept checks, make sure that the buyer understands there is a 7 to 10 day clearing period for most banks before you will ship the cel.

And offer periods are just that offer periods. I can't tell you how many times I receive an email stating "I want to offer on ... but I don't know what to offer." You might think that's a fine email but consider the seller. If 20 people all write that, how do you think they'll feel? Pretty frustrated. They had an offer period because they 1) didn't have time to come up with prices or 2) remembers what they paid but not sure about the current market. Of course, there are other reasons too but those are typically the main two.

Whew! I had my own little rant too.

I've just sold so much lately that I see more of the dark-side than I like. People do strange things when money is involved. As long as everyone treats everything professionally like you would talking to an actual company and keep good records, everything should go smoothly.

Silvrdrago · Post by **Silvrdrago** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:28 pm

well to disagree with duo a bit (sorry!)

i actualy think asking what would be a fair offer is a fair thing. the buyer might not be the only one who dosn't know the current market value. Especialy consodering some things rarely come up forsale.

I've seen somethings come up that i've never seen before....i when i can't guess what to offer i ask. if i offer their are only three possable options in this case.

1) not verly likely...but i might hit the fair market value.
2) i over pay (sometimes by alot had it happen) also not common
3) i under offer (most common)....and despite what some may say.....low offers are sometimes (more often then not) taken as insulting.....i can think off several cases in points on this

the option both want is #1 and niether 2 or 3.......so i ask.....typicaly the seller has something in mind and it works out fine. last person who insisted i offer on a cel i've never seen come up forsale before never replied to my offer.....i think that says what they thought of it (i thought it was fair...but have nothing to judge it against)

also if you're a seller you are takeing the business postion of the retailer and it is your responsablity to help the customers (offerers) so that you can take their money (your end goal)

as far as shipping problems between members....you just have to use care...ive shipped 1000 or so items in the past year......problems 0......on the buying fornt countless purchase....no unrecived items.

so i can give one bit of advice. Don't use money orders!!! never ever ever. you have no recorse at all other than the courts. and if it's a international money order you have no options. your might as well be mailing cash.

I rember as few months back one person was only takeing interationl wires to their bank acount as payments. AND PEOPLE PAID THAT WAY! WHAT KIND OF CRAZY ARE YOU DOING IF YOU THINK THATS SAFE! i know nothing went woung for people and while i did buy from the seller, i made them use escrow.com since they refused paypal. now the person was very nice and i didn't think their would be any issues....i just always cover my butt....even if i've know them for years.

Also, if and item is not recived after 30 days it's an automatic paypal dispute, not matter what the seller says, they have had plenty of time and if you don't you void your right with paypal to complain. After you file the dispute the seller has an additional 30 days to get you your item before they're forced to refund you.

So look at it this way....if you buy something and don't get it and you lose your money is no ones fault but your own, you must cover your self or else someone will bite your for it.

duotrouble · Post by **duotrouble** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:09 pm

Silvrdrago wrote:well to disagree with duo a bit (sorry!)

No worries!

I should have written those are my 2 main reasons for offer periods. But the response is the reason I won't have them anymore. (I'm by no means directing any of this at anyone.) I'll just take a few extra minutes some day and figure out prices for ebay. It has turned out to be my safest, securest bet.

(In fact, I just opened a dispute today since my buyer stopped communicating with me.)

Now, a random email asking if I'd accept an offer and not knowing what to offer, I have no problems with that. Guess it all depends on your point of view.

Post by **JWR** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:29 pm

just a bit of explaination,

I have recieved 3 different requests for advise in the last 4 days which prompted this post (I really do not consider it a rant for the purpose was educational) on bad transactions.

Yes this is one of the reasons RS tries to discourage sales outside of the RS Shop but I'm not about to think such does not happen a lot.

I guess I should take it as a complement that so many have the respect for me to ask my advice on how to handle a problem and I have never turned down such a request.

A few years ago I did have a problem involving an item (Watch) I bought from a person in England that never shipped it to me. I did my research and ended up getting the person arrested in England for Wire Fraud and got my money back after the person's posessions were auctions off. This took 1 1/2 years but the person was put away for 7 years and I did recieve my money back.

transmet · Post by **transmet** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:17 am

JWR wrote:A few years ago I did have a problem involving an item (Watch) I bought from a person in England that never shipped it to me. I did my research and ended up getting the person arrested in England for Wire Fraud and got my money back after the person's possessions were auctions off. This took 1 1/2 years but the person was put away for 7 years and I did receive my money back.

Nice! Always happy to hear when justice actually prevails. I'm not surprised at the severity of the punishment considering how strict the laws are in the U.K. concerning international fraud. I know from personal experience as a potential fraud victim (1st edition/2nd printing of Screwtape Letters that mysteriously got "lost" in the post

) that they don't mess around.

Yeah... I got my book.

Wendy · Post by **Wendy** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:24 am

It may be a little off topic and I know I've said it before but I'll say it again.
As a community we have to look out for each other.

If you know about a certain seller or buyer being a bad fruit, TELL the community; warn your fellow collectors so the person can't get away with what they are doing and won't be able to scam someone else.

Anime-Beta can, even though it has a lot of members, be a lonely place. Trust me, I know from multiple experiences now.
Threads that contain a warning or a cry for help more often than not go unanswered, but at least people are warned.