So you're new to the cel community (help thread)

Are you new to the forum?
Introductions, goodbyes, vacations, reunions...people stuff.
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JWR
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So you're new to the cel community (help thread)

Post by JWR »

I have been working on this for a while in hopes of helping out those new to the community of cel collectors avoid a lot of the pitfalls we have seen and in a lot of cases experienced.

Do feel free to add to this list but I ask that all please keep it constructive.

I am going to break this up into 3 main sections.

1. Your Collection
2. Business Practices
3. Community


1. Your Collection

First off remember that your collection regardless of size or monetary investment is yours alone. It should be for your enjoyment so do collect what you want.

It’s not a contest. Each piece is special to you and as you spend time around the cel community you will be exposed to others collections that vary through the vast years of anime shows produced.

When starting out , once you have decided you want to collect from a particular show , take some time to research the show and check out cel dealer’s sites , Ebay and Yahoo Japan to get an idea as to what is out there and the price range.

Try to avoid the trap of impulse buying everything that appears for it can quickly add up and before you know it. Many have found themselves with maxed credit cards , scrounging to pay real life bills for they over spent.
Set a realistic budget you can spend on this hobby and remember to set aside funds for the unforeseen events like a car or appliance breaking down , a pet getting sick ect.

You should know that while cels can be an investment they are not a Liquid asset , it can be very hard to sell them both time wise as well as emotionally. When one needs a quick sale , it’s very hard to recoup back what you paid and to complete a sale in enough time to help with the expense your needing to raise money for be it an emergency or that the one cel you would give a body part for (we refer to them as “Kidney cels”) suddenly is put up for sale.


2. Business Practices

As you enter into the cel community you may become involved in making a purchase from someone in the community be it through a for sale / offer / eBay post. Do remember even though we all hope to be friends here , following simple business practices will keep it that way.

First off do treat all transactions with people here as pure business and leave the emotional attachments of friendship out of it. What I mean is that both sides have responsibilities to make a successful transaction. Communicate clearly and act professionally.

Negotiate all parts and get agreement on price , shipping details and get all your questions answered. Don’t agree to make a purchase then attempt to change things such as asking about a payment plan afterwards.
This works both ways , If you say you will make the payment by a set date do so just as the seller should ship the item once it’s paid for and provide proof of shipment by emailing the tracking information by an agreed upon date.
I have seen a lot of friendships ruined cause they did not follow through with what had been agreed to. People making promises then not following through. We tend to want to cut slack to “friends” but if you keep it as only a business arrangement all will end up the better.


3. Community

As with any community , the cel collectors here are pretty tight knit. We share a love of our hobby and are very protective of each other. That’s why when a problem occurs it can be quite disruptive. We all share information both good and bad and are quick to jump on someone who has done a friend harm as well as to defend one against things we feel are wrong or unfair. Each new person brings something to share and are welcome. It may take a bit of interaction to get to know others and start new friendships but we all have a love of anime & cels which gives a common bond.

The internet and boards like this and other collector forums have a certain anonymous nature since we all use screen names. Some of us have been lucky enough to have actually met in person at conventions like Anime Expo or Otakon and built lasting friendships. Most though only know each other through their words written here.
The problem with written words is that some can easily read into them meanings not in the heart of the author. It’s also easier to write something that you would not think of saying to a person in a face to face setting and may regret later.
As you post to forums or emails , take a few minutes to read over what you have written and look for things that might be easily misconstrued before you hit the post/send button. Think how it might sound if this had been sent to you and you were reading it. Sometimes a small change of a phrase can keep something from being taken the wrong way.
Last edited by JWR on Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:09 am, edited 4 times in total.
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lcatino
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Re: So your new to the cel community (help thread)

Post by lcatino »

JWR wrote:
Try to avoid the trap of impulse buying everything that appears for it can quickly add up and before you know it. Many have found themselves with maxed credit cards , scrounging to pay real life bills for they over spent.

:roll: I am so guilty of this, and if I had to do it over again, would not have been so impulsive.


The only thing I can think of that may be helpful would be who to contact for help.

When I first started collecting over the winter, I was approached by a private seller, who turned out to be dishonest. In the middle of my transactions with this person, I started becoming suspicious, but I did not know anyone in the community at this point, and did not know where to go for help. Thankfully, I mentioned my situation to an ebay seller I had bought from twice, who offered to help me. That help ended up saving me thousands, and that person is now one of my closest friends.

Get to the point - I know. :P

Perhaps adding that if a new collector seems like they may be in a sketchy situation with a private sale, they could contact a moderator for help or advice. Having the title means experience and the respect of the community, which would make it more comfortable for a newbie to ask for advice, and hopefully avoid a negative experience.

Just a thought. ^^
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Post by Ronin »

Very interesting and useful stuff there!

Could've warned me about the impulse buying too though! ;)

Oh and if this topic is going to be stuck, you may want to change "your" to "you're".
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Post by sensei »

I would add something to the effect that collectors should recognize that the things they collect are unique, one-of-a-kind art objects, and as such they demand an extra level of long-term commitment to preservation. If you allow a rare comic book or baseball card to deteriorate or be damaged due to sloppy storage or exposure to the elements, well then you can always buy another. But once the cel or sketch that you own has been damaged, then that image is defaced for eternity. For that reason, anyone who collects should should be prepared to carry out regular maintenance needed to ensure that the items you collect remain in at least the condition in which they were bought. Understand the issues of line fading and adhesive tape burning (the two biggest threats to animation art), know the proper way to store cels and sketches, have archival-quality bags (the ones they come in are often not sufficient), cel books, and/or acid-free storage boxes, and check the condition of your collection regularly.
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Re: So you're new to the cel community (help thread)

Post by Kata »

JWR wrote: Negotiate all parts and get agreement on price , shipping details and get all your questions answered. Don’t agree to make a purchase then attempt to change things such as asking about a payment plan afterwards.
This works both ways , If you say you will make the payment by a set date do so just as the seller should ship the item once it’s paid for when they say the should and provide scanned proof of shipment by an agreed upon date.
It also should state that BOTH parties need to reply to the other since it's a business transaction. If e-mail or PM is sent asking questions the buyer/seller needs to be responsible to reply to that or those e-mails. I seen it happen that the buyer/seller did not even bother replying to any e-mails. That's bad communication! The communication has to be there! If payment plan the seller needs to remind the buyer that a payment is due with and Invoice, that way all these mis-communications are not happening.

Also always make sure as a seller to include your payment info (total and paypal addy or mailing addy whatever was said the payment method was) so the buyer can pay and not have to wait on a reply. That's the reason the Invoice is important that states total due (or a payment plan total due of... on this date) and the info where to send payment to.

Not everybody uses the same paypal addy all the time or people might of moved. It's important to have a current valid addy within the e-mail or the Invoice statement.
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Re: So your new to the cel community (help thread)

Post by Kata »

lcatino wrote: The only thing I can think of that may be helpful would be who to contact for help.
A cel dealer usually is the best to contact at first. If they can't answer the question then you can always post a thread on a forum asking and people usually give answers.
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Post by Cloud »

Let's wait and see what they do.
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Post by Kaona »

Know exactly what you are buying and what condition it is in before you hand over your money.

Save an image of your purchase (we've seen the ol' switch the cel picture on eBay after the sale). Feel free to ask the cel number and its condition - excellent, good, fair, bad. Is the cel damaged in any way - bent, paint missing, layers stuck together? Is it stuck to its douga? Does it come with its douga? Does it come with a background, is it copy or original?

Pay with Paypal if at all possible and keep close watch on the time allowed to file a complaint. Don't accept countless excuses. Paypal has a strict deadline, and you have the right to expect your purchase within 45 days.

Insure your purchases against loss in the mail.

That is all I can think of at the moment. Hope it helps! :)
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Post by Cloud »

I always feel completely free.
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The Three Laws of Robotics:
1. A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
-I, Robot (Asimov)
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Post by Shampoo »

Kaona brings up a great point : always pay for insurance/tracking
for your packages as to protect both parties with proof
of shipping.

Also, DO ask for help if there is a question or matter
your stumped on and cant find a thread or page about.
I learned the most in/about this hobby from
fellow collectors just by asking questions.

Don't go to Japan thinking you'll have a better
time finding cels there LOL! :rollin :rollin
Most of the time the best stuff is posted online,
so you have just as much chance finding A grade
sitting at home than digging thru the celbooks at Nakano.
:rollin :rollin
(thou if you do get to go, hit Nakano at 12 when they open /no1)

wish I had known that the very 1st trip I took.. maybe then
I'd planned more sight-seeing :P :P :P


Oh yea and lastly,...
alL yOuR KiBaS BeLOnG tO mE
Mwahahahaha

:kamehameha: :dsmoke :dlook
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Re: So you're new to the cel community (help thread)

Post by duotrouble »

I'd like to add that I think it's a great idea that you want to help out the newbies of the community. I can't tell you how many times I've been asked questions regarding some of your topics. Nice work! :^^:

However, I would like to point this out.
JWR wrote:This works both ways , If you say you will make the payment by a set date do so just as the seller should ship the item once it’s paid for when they say the should and provide scanned proof of shipment by an agreed upon date.
As I seller, I am NOT required to scan you a copy of the receipt nor do I. I keep the communication lines open during my entire selling periods. There are plenty of people here who can vouch for that. I'm not against scanning this information and will should there become an issue of some kind. But please don't tell people it's expected. Those are sellers going above and beyond what they need to do as many dealers don't do this unless requested also.
Kaona wrote:Pay with Paypal if at all possible and keep close watch on the time allowed to file a complaint. Don't accept countless excuses. Paypal has a strict deadline, and you have the right to expect your purchase within 45 days.
I absolutely agree! Regardless of your level of friendship, file a dispute BEFORE the 45 days are up. I always give my seller a warning that I'm going to file a dispute on a certain date if I have not received the package by that date. That's not receiving a notice that the seller mailed the package but the actual package itself. You would be amazed how quickly the package arrives after that. :wink:
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Post by Cloud »

Oh a secret. Hush-hush.
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The Three Laws of Robotics:
1. A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
-I, Robot (Asimov)
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Post by Belldandy16 »

keep all your reciepts for insurance pourposes.

im just starting to after seeing poor Jen's inferno collection and i have about 15% of the proof of what i paid for all my cels and comic book artwork X| .

i know they might go up in value but if something does happen i can show them at least what i paid for them. because of course they cant give you what theyre really worth since theyre priceless!
:l
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Post by duotrouble »

I forgot to mention never close a PayPal dispute unless you've received your package. PayPal will close it if you receive a refund. I had a dispute open for over a year since a seller didn't have any money in their account when I won my dispute. Had I closed the dispute, I never would have received my money. A year later, he tried to sell something to someone else using his PayPal account. As soon as money hit his account, it was immediately transferred into my account.
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