Rubberslug Feedback Project - Starting the Conversation!!

[Jadeduo]

Hi All!

After 23 survey respondents to date this is the second most popular project that people are interested in working on. My idea with this was to bring people back into or introducing new people to the community by reviewing the galleries on Rubberslug as systematically as possible as well as sending a note via the gallery.
So Rubberslug asks these three questions when you are asked to rate a gallery at the bottom:

Presentation - Gallery design, color selection, and ability to navigate gallery

Collection - Diversity, depth, and curator knowledge of his or her collection

Overall - General impression of the gallery, not necessarily an average

I figure we should go through each galleries wings, in some sort of systematic way we agree on. Rate each gallery, send gallery feedback with a note introducing yourself and checking to see if the gallery owner has been to beta and asking to see what they think about joining and getting involved.

We are trying here in this post to figure out:

1. How we go about this project.
2. Write some sort of standardized Beta blurb, while extending an offer of invitation.
3. Gather volunteers at the same time to join the project.

Like I said before you are in control of how much time you devote to the project. This project does not have a deadline, this should be something you can work on for maybe 20-30 minutes a week. My hope is that we have everyone will decide to participate and this can be a great way to reinvigorate the community.

Jadeduo

[sensei]

Somehow I missed this thread: perhaps you should provide a link to it in the other (more active) thread. Some questions:

Should we leave messages for all the galleries we visit? Or perhaps for those that we see have been updated in the last (three?) years? I suspect many RS galleries that are still live have been abandoned by their curators, and the cels may no longer be in their collections.

Should we begin by visiting galleries listed in the member information? And leave a message to the effect that Beta is trying to restart communication among collectors and (list proposed projects)? Then skip these galleries in the general RS "crawl"?

While I don't mind the rating system used by RS, I have found the Beta "Open House" a much more helpful activity, actually more for what I got out of visiting other curators' galleries than from the comments left on mine (though these were welcome and especially told me what was working and what wasn't in my approach). So should the comments we leave reflect the 3 criteria used by RS or perhaps add a comment or suggestion that's not covered under RS's 3 categories?

I like the idea, as I've tried to do something similar (but less ambitious) whenever I see a new gallery go up: i.e., leave comments and let people know about Beta. (BTW, you should include in the note that an invite is needed to register, but that is simply to deter spammers, and not a sign that we are clubbish or exclusive.)

Good luck and keep me in touch about the project.

[Jadeduo]

Will do... ^_^ I'm glad you noticed it Sensei, I also changed the name of the main thread per some feedback from another beta-er. I've actually been scanning the newest shipment from YJ today and thinking about your reply, and also thanks for getting the convo started on the RS project.

Should we leave messages for all the galleries we visit? Or perhaps for those that we see have been updated in the last (three?) years? I suspect many RS galleries that are still live have been abandoned by their curators, and the cels may no longer be in their collections.

I suspect that you are correct on this, however, I suspect there are quite a few people that are still collecting but have dropped off the online community radar. I myself have been known to disappear for a year or two to take a break and then come back after a lengthy break due to real life issues, stress, or even burnout. So I think that maybe we should not rule out everybody based on date of last update. I think maybe we should review everyone regardless of when they last updated.

Should we begin by visiting galleries listed in the member information? And leave a message to the effect that Beta is trying to restart communication among collectors and (list proposed projects)? Then skip these galleries in the general RS "crawl"?

That would be a good starting point trying to get current or former beta-ers on board... That would also make sense to skip beta-ers maybe give a quick a hello and say hey (great idea), because I feel like this project is the best way to get new recruits in.

While I don't mind the rating system used by RS, I have found the Beta "Open House" a much more helpful activity, actually more for what I got out of visiting other curators' galleries than from the comments left on mine (though these were welcome and especially told me what was working and what wasn't in my approach). So should the comments we leave reflect the 3 criteria used by RS or perhaps add a comment or suggestion that's not covered under RS's 3 categories?

The rating system was just an idea for a starting point, for giving some feedback, I also thought of maybe letting the person know your favorite piece in their gallery, and maybe give them a positive and a negative on gallery. Maybe temper the bad with the good? Or not even something necessarily bad maybe if a color scheme is blinding? I agree that for those of us looking for someone to get some actionable constructive criticism, and put a lot of extra time and effort into our galleries (which I can't even imagine Sensei you must spend weeks on new wings/cels of your gallery, some of my cels are lucky they get and hour of research before I get to posting especially when I get a big stack in) it is a much better event and that is something I would definitely like to spearhead. It is on my list to start that post or the contest post, the contest event garnered the most interest of the events I surveyed about. But I would like to slog through all the precedent first before I jump into that pool.

I like the idea, as I've tried to do something similar (but less ambitious) whenever I see a new gallery go up: i.e., leave comments and let people know about Beta. (BTW, you should include in the note that an invite is needed to register, but that is simply to deter spammers, and not a sign that we are clubbish or exclusive.)

We all appreciate you welcoming newbies in, in fact I remember the first time you ever sent me an e-mail it was great to talk CCS cels and the anime/manga with someone else. I agree with this thought, I think in fact we should put a note at the end of the e-mail saying just reply back and I will send you an invite to the forum no strings attached. We want to get this community moving a vocal again, the quietness disturbs me. This week there were very few posts, which I get coming off a holiday weekend, but there was a time when holidays were the best time to post!!!

Everyone is invited to reply and take part in this post so please! Ideas, rebuttals?

Thanks!
Jadeduo

[theultimatebrucelee]

I'm thinking maybe some people who voted for this project had a slightly different idea in mind. Not sure if I'd be able to go missionary on this project myself. Was thinking more along the line of limiting to only people who are willing to participate like the cel contest event.

Think the lack of participation here might be the same as lack of incentive, perhaps majorly contributed to whats left out there and change of interest. Maybe other members here have a better idea as to why...there is the fairly active sell/offer section. I don't suppose someone could start the survey topic "why did you stop participating?"

[Jadeduo]

It's late for me here but I had to respond cause I would not be able to sleep if I read this and did not respond. I think you might be thinking of the Gallery Peer Review which would be more of a project that only people that really are looking for specific feedback for improvements to their gallery, this project is more about bringing more people into the community making some noise, I want to keep it simple once it kicks off, but I would like to put a framework together for it because it has never been done before here. We have never had to drum up noise, because it used to just come.

While yes the for sale section is kind of active some of the most recent posters in that section have been dealers not private collectors. while, dealers will contribute occasionally their investment into the community is more of a financial interest and will have a hard time giving time unless they are also collectors willing to dig in with us.

I also think a why did you stop participating might drum up some hArd feelings and mudslinging I would like to wipe the slate clean in my research for organizing the annual cel contest I am actuAlly a little bit frightened some not so nice things have happened in the past and I would like to avoid it if at all possible. This one I wAs hoping to put together in a few days and get the ball rolling on it because I envision this being an ongoing effort of recruitment and positive thinking!

So my overall vision is for everyone interested in participating spend 15-20 minutes a week reviewing Rubberslug galleries thru the feedback system with a preset formula everyone on the project agrees on and also an invite to join us here on beta'. Making it a special focus not to discount our fellow cel nuts who collect american cartoons!

So help with the framework on this would be exceptional, I am currently looking into figuring out a way to share spreadsheets through google to keep track of rules and framework but for now I will keep updating the forum with pertinent info as we go along!

Jadeduo

[cutiebunny]

I'd rather we use the Feedback Project set-up we had before instead of reviewing every RS gallery. I don't think that's feasible. There are too many galleries. At what point do you say that a member is no longer part of the community? After 2 years without an update? 5? 10? And how helpful would a feedback project be to someone who is no longer updating?

TBH, I don't like the cel and sketch contests. Even if it's not publicly stated, they always bring up bad feelings. Some people vote for their friends and thus the best piece of artwork doesn't always win. I personally feel the awards are slanted towards what 90% of most people collect, and those that collect other things (ie. shikishi) are limited to one category.

I'd honestly rather we just have an exhibition of stuff we like from our gallery in those categories rather than assign awards, like maybe bring back the Anime-Beta gallery, but have things organized under the contest categories.

[GuyvarIII]

If you are recruiting members for the forum, it might be best to just put the positives in your reviews of collectors’ websites. It might cause unnecessary hurt feelings if you just email someone out of the blue and tell them what you don’t like about their gallery. You wouldn’t want to tell someone that their background color is terrible and hard on the eyes… only to find out that it was their dead grandma’s favorite shade.

There have been some past posts about collectors only voting for their friends, and other Cel/Sketch Contest problems. I have never been on the organizing side of things, but I’ve always thought the cel and sketch contests seemed pretty fair in regards to voting. Many times the winning entry in a category has seemed completely obvious to me, other times I’ve been taken by surprise; but I’ve always thought that people voted for the one they thought was the best, or the best representation of the category, and that opinions differ. In addition to enjoying looking at all the great entries by other AB members, I‘ve mostly used the awards as an opportunity to show some artwork that I hadn’t yet uploaded to my gallery.

In the last awards held, the 2013 Sketch Awards, I had the following entries:

Female - Battle Angel (Gunnm), 1993
Hanken - Peacock King (Kujaku-Oh): A Harvest of Cherry Blossoms, 1991
Love - Five Star Stories, 1989
Rage - Souten Kouro, 2009
Animated - Street Fighter II: Movie, 1994
Hentai - Berserk Golden Age: Descent, 2013
Storyboard - Heroic Legend Of Arislan, Movie II (Trailer), 1992


The only sketch of these entries that another Beta user (except for those running the contest) might have recognized as mine was the Love entry, as that sketch was already showing in my gallery (and I think I might have put it in a post). So, if any member was inclined to vote for a sketch just because they liked me or my collection, it could have affected the voting on that one.

There were some known shows, such as: Berserk, Street Fighter, and Battle Angel, but also more obscure ones, e.g.; Peacock King, and Souten Kouro. Though last year there wasn’t too much participation and it was a small contest, my entries were in both the more crowded and less crowded categories. I had entries in the groupings of a particular emotion like Rage and Love, as well as those based on the type of work, like Hanken, Storyboard, and Animated. These factors didn’t seem to have any bearing on winning or not.

I was particularly lucky in this last contest, but I’ve won some over the past few years-- and given the series I collect, I couldn’t have gotten anything if people only voted for the shows they collected. Though I’m not a very active forum poster, I would continue to participate in the cel/sketch contests when or if they were held.

[sensei]

I've always found the cel/sketch contests enjoyable, once I'd realized that it is what it is, that is, just an opportunity for people to view art that they might not have a chance to view and appreciate. Yes, there have been some sour threads associated, some of which I reviewed when I did my "Love, War, and Anime Art" piece. But even there the consensus opinion has been "lighten up, it's just a way to have fun, not decide what the 'best' art truly is." I've taken the lead on one and been a staffer twice, and I didn't feel any negative vibes caused by any of these. It is a way of keeping the forum healthy by generating excitement every so often.

As for the gallery feedback, I agree that the positive approach might be best, though a non-referential comment could be added to the effect of "Beta has a lot of really committed curators who can help make your gallery even better." Maybe an Open House event soon would draw some of these new arrivals in more tightly. (I headed this up last year, and while I'm not fishing for more comments on my gallery at the moment, I'd be glad to help with one of these.)

[Jadeduo]

Hi Cutiebunny, Guyvar, and Sensei!

I respond now, let's just say work is insane and leave it at that right now! On the plus side I will have money for a shopping spree soonish! ^_^

I'd rather we use the Feedback Project set-up we had before instead of reviewing every RS gallery. I don't think that's feasible. There are too many galleries. At what point do you say that a member is no longer part of the community? After 2 years without an update? 5? 10? And how helpful would a feedback project be to someone who is no longer updating?

I don't think we can rule anyone out, I think that this might be a good way to cull out who is and who is not still even peripherally interested in the community, or maybe if they are a casual fan that has never gotten around to updating due to RL issues. I had a great conversation a few weeks back with the Person who bought the Sailor Venus Ep 125 set from me years ago and she has never even put up a gallery, 1 because she has not had time and 2 because she has seen how quiet it has gotten this makes the peripheral reward of keeping an amazing gallery together if no one ever looks at it or gives feedback so I think that we REALLY REALLY need to include as many people as we can!

Also I think even though you have thought the contest is dividing, it is a huge draw and I think a good tool to get people talking again. I have never actually competed in the in annual cel contest so I can't say how it has gone in the past that is why I am looking at all the past contest threads to see if we can restructure to make it easier and less insane. I always felt that the amount of categories made the contest quite bulky and made it harder to get everyone to participate who did not have the time to look at over a 100 entries. I also want to make use of Survey Monkey for the Contest because it is a really great tool, and free to boot!

It would be nice to re-open the forum gallery, but I would be worried it would fall by the wayside unless someone takes complete charge of it and is willing to spend the time on it, it really needs. It will also need an advocate that can champion it to the forum and get everyone to send their best piece down, and do a very nice write up of their gallery for the Champion.

If you are recruiting members for the forum, it might be best to just put the positives in your reviews of collectors’ websites. It might cause unnecessary hurt feelings if you just email someone out of the blue and tell them what you don’t like about their gallery. You wouldn’t want to tell someone that their background color is terrible and hard on the eyes… only to find out that it was their dead grandma’s favorite shade.

LOL good point Guyver, so only positive messages! I can roll with that. That is what I am all about as well ^_^

As far as the contest is concerned, I agree there have been problems in the past with nepotism and crazy in fights, and just overall meanness, laziness, and overall bad behavior. There are a few features on Survey Monkey that I find very useful in keeping the votes to one per person, and there are a few things that we can do to make sure as much as possible to be fair, such as publishing the voting results after the contest from Survey Monkey which is 100% do-able and would I hope stop any issues from even happening, before they happen.

That is an interesting point to only put up items that you have not sent into the contest before, but that is not always feasible because then there is pressure to go out and buy new pieces just for the contest. so maybe that is not a rule that should be put into place or be suggested I would not want anyone to feel pressured to buy new pieces and murder their monthly budget.

As for the gallery feedback, I agree that the positive approach might be best, though a non-referential comment could be added to the effect of "Beta has a lot of really committed curators who can help make your gallery even better." Maybe an Open House event soon would draw some of these new arrivals in more tightly. (I headed this up last year, and while I'm not fishing for more comments on my gallery at the moment, I'd be glad to help with one of these.)

Thanks Sensei, I am hoping I will have time to put the Open House thread together tonight, and get the rules up for the Feedback project, and we can make a start of this. It would be great if you wanted to participate in the Open House I have always found your comments to be insightful and quite good.

Thanks,
Jadeduo

[Jadeduo]

GAAH!

Con season is eating my soul! (Cutiebunny, you're allowed to say I told you so! ^_^)

Sure we can do a costume everyday at Otakon, and let's make all new ones instead of recycling the ones from last year!

(Never mind that, we have 7 people in the group 3 costumes per person and one sewing machine... And only two costume makers... I am currently arguing with Queen Beryl's Headress from PGSM! NOT FUN!)

You know what I've gone to Otakon for 5+ years in the last 10, I should enter the art auction like I've always wanted to, because artist alley is so expensive and you have to man the booth.... But you need to actually break out your acrylics, pencils, pen, paper, and canvas and produce something... On a timeline!

So in the next six weeks I will try and get my sh** together and work on Beta stuff, hopefully. We knocked out most of 5 costumes this weekend and hopefully another couple tonight there is a lot in progress, and hopefully I can take a deep breath and get something done for Beta. With the mods leaving (sadly) And a lack of new blood this is more and more important that I get these projects started!

Thanks for everyone's patience!
Jadeduo