Major problems coming for scanlation sites

[iceman57]

By law, you must have But the point is, the end result is still the same.

Indeed but...

I can go online and read chapter one

Provides cash to mafia, prostitution, drugs and children work.

I can go to a library and read chapter one

Legal.

I can head to a bookstore like Borders and read chapter one.

Legal.

Unless I decided to buy it, I not only acquired the good(reading chapter one & the info contained within) but I also did not pay for the good.

Your note refers to a sample of the art, a teaser. Have you ever read the complete collection of Harry Potter in a store ? This is radically different, this is a choice of life, to live night & day in a store.

Economically speaking, the end result is that I got the good and that the US distributor did not receive any money from me in order to obtain the good. The US distributor is no better off by either possibility.

Cool, what about taxes, customs ?...
You know the things that paid for your school, your living place roads, roadsigns, parks... This is the same. Maybe you consider that you don't have to pay for, that this is a right to have free things ? Have you ever stolen a bag in a store ? Weird vision especially coming for US citizen, a country made by migrants hoping to have a better future, money, family.

[Sky Rat]

I would support them forcing scantalators to take down anything that’s been licensed already. If only there was a way to discriminate. I just find it really unfair to deny us to be able to read things that we have no option to buy in English.

I’d even be okay with paying a fee to subscribe to a scantalator’s site if they then passed royalties back to the Japanese publisher or whatever. I just want to be able to read more titles than are currently published.

My personal manga buying has dropped off drastically in the past 4+ years. Not because I read it online (if I’m not interested in buying it I’m not interested in reading it whatsoever,) but because I’ve grown really bored with the majority off titles making it to book store shelves.

I guess I’ve just gotten pretty jaded towards the major manga publishers. I’m definitely not heir target audience. I don’t blame them for doing a lawsuit like that, but it sure isn’t scoring them any extra money from me. If anything it just makes me feel even less motivated to buy manga.

[Gonzai]

I am a try it and buy it kind of person with no patience.
I always read manga online because I hate waiting for
the new stuff, however, I buy all the licensed manga
when it is released. If they were to take it all down,
I would go nuts waiting for the next volumes to be
released.

[zerospace]

I've got a question for all of you who read manga online: If you could read Japanese, would you buy your manga from Japan, then?

Or, if by some miracle the manga publishers in Japan started publishing manga in english along with the Japanese versions (meaning you can get the manga at the same time as anyone in Japan) ... would you buy the translated copies direct from the publisher in Japan?

[Sky Rat]

I've got a question for all of you who read manga online: If you could read Japanese, would you buy your manga from Japan, then?

Or, if by some miracle the manga publishers in Japan started publishing manga in english along with the Japanese versions (meaning you can get the manga at the same time as anyone in Japan) ... would you buy the translated copies direct from the publisher in Japan?

That would probably be a case by case basis. Very likely yes. The Japanese versions often have nice color inserts and other things that get cut from the US releases.

I probably wouldn’t bother buying things like Hana to Yume or anything though. I like to buy book quality copies to keep and reread. My average manga series I buy I’ve reread 3-4 times. The cheap digest manga is too bulky for me to acquire huge quantities of.

Unfortunately my language skills are terrible. I tried translating one of my doujinshi once….figured out about 4 sentences before giving up. ;__;

[Captain Haddock]

Sigh the ol' piracy kills the industry malarky. Personnally I prefur more oldschool piracy. Swinging across onto the target ship parot on shoulder, Flintlock/Cutlass in hand and having at 'em. That and the rum, oh the rum, how I miss the rum.

[Keropi]

I've thought about this before and to be honest, my interest in anime and manga are at completely different levels.

If the scanlations weren't available I would hardly be reading any manga at all. I'm mainly reading it as a supplement to the anime hobby. I'm not collecting manga related artwork either.

If fansubs and raw anime were not available AT ALL, then I'm sure I would be buying more anime than I am now. I would be renting more anime than also. I would be biking to the Japanese rental store to rent raw DVDs again and watching them without subtitles even though I'd only understand a little of what they were saying. I would miss seeing a lot of shows and I would miss buying a lot of artwork too because I wouldn't be familiar with the show to want to get something from it. But that is to be expected given that is how things were 9-13 years ago.

[Sky Rat]

I'm not collecting manga related artwork either.

Is there any around except for artist sketches/shikishi???

I'm actually the opposite of you. I'm FAR more interested in manga than anime. I'd prefer collecting manga art to cels but I just haven't really found any available, except for the rare sketch on an autograph board, etc. I've only seen actual original manga panels maybe once on the Mandarake, and for something I'd never even heard of...

Am I missing stuff???

[Angelic-Lair]

Free distribution can be a bit of a double-edged sword. If something is out there, free for all to discover, then the level of interest will likely go up (unless that something sucks hairy ass, of course). If, however, the distributor decides to keep a tighter hold over the content, then interest will likely go down as less and less people will find that which the company is trying to sell. The company retains distribution rights, but at the cost of a reduced audience.

It is our opinion that this controlling mentality is, in fact, what is killing anime and manga; and not the free distribution of it.

With free distribution you automatically increase your target market. All you have to do then is provide a related product that this market might be interested in: T-shirts, figures, plushies, whatever. It's all about diversification and learning how to ride the wave of popularity in a changing marketplace. Companies like Funimation, who can't learn how to take advantage of such a market will likely die out, much like libraries and newspapers.

We remember similar debates years ago about MP3s, when everyone was worried that the music industry would simply disappear because of peer-to-peer and torrent software. While the market for CDs is undoubtedly smaller than it was, it's still there, and the music industry has learned to adapt by selling MP3s alongside CDs.

[iceman57]

Or, if by some miracle the manga publishers in Japan started publishing manga in english along with the Japanese versions (meaning you can get the manga at the same time as anyone in Japan)

While reading I first thought you were thinking that Japan knows existance of other countries and published directly in Japan the english version

Ahem, more seriously, Japan industry is taking several shares or buying small entities in order to cut down the production time and faster the licencing process. Recent affair in our good old Europe is purchasing of KAZE group by Shûeisha/Shôgakukan through the VIZ MEDIA brand. I let you imagine that the days close to this event some historical licence owner crapped their pants for the renewal aspect risk (thinking that once expired, the new big structure will directly produce and distribute the DVDs).
The more licence owner would be active in countries out of Japan, with a financial extremely high level, the less would be the door open to laxism. Note that I had a discussion about with the staff due to the previous lawsuit scanlation affair, and they of course noticed again a difference between "fan sites" and "so called fan site, earning tons of cash with porn adds & sharing non authorised content".

Coming years would be extremelty interesting

[cutiebunny]

So, you're saying the ends justify the means? I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with that. Stealing, no matter what the reason, is wrong, IMO.

No, what I'm saying that, in terms of economics, it's exactly the same thing. Regardless of whether one reads it online, in a bookstore, a library or buys it second-hand, for every additional reader, the US distributors/mangaka/production staff, etc. do not make any additional money.

You can label it with cute names and assign values of 'legal' and 'illegal', but in the end, other than the initial sale, nobody involved in its production makes any more money.


I agree that making a site where one can have unlimited access to manga for a nominal fee would be good, but once again, considering that the bulk of anime/manga fans are still in school, how would they pay for it? Most of them do not have credit cards and/or Paypal, let alone a job. They could buy the 'pay as you go' credit cards, but how many parents are savvy enough to give their kids that option? Send cash to a PO Box? Now you'd have to pay for someone to pick up the mail and head to the bank to cash it. A website like this may create an additional secondary market - I post my ID/Password online and you can read all that you want under my account.

Most of the comments that I've read, at least in regards to anger over people not buying manga/anime, are coming from people who are adults in first world countries, and have their own credit cards/job. Think back to when you were 12. What did you get for the holidays? Was it a $200 refillable credit card or a fuzzy orange sweater? And what if you live out in the boonies, in another country, where, even if you wanted to pay a ridiculous shipping fee, the chances of you actually receiving your manga would be nil because the postal system is corrupt/ineffective(Italy, I'm looking at you...)?

As for buying manga direct from Japan, I've done that. I used to subscribe to Nakayoshi, so, with shipping, it came to about $12/issue. But, because I don't live in Japan and the publishers won't ship outside of Japan, I don't get to benefit from all the nifty prize that monthly magazines give away. This, for me, is what I'm after. If US Shounen Jump started having contests where you can win original artwork, I'd have no problem buying it, even if I was only interested in 1-2 storylines.

...But instead, they give out Yu-gi-oh cards...

[Sky Rat]

…When I was in college my parents gave me money to buy food. That’s where most of my manga funds came from. Heh.

[zerospace]

OK! Most of A-B vs me. Sounds like fun! Anyone else care to weigh in before I continue? *laughs* Seriously folks, these are just my opinions -- I state them because they seem to be among the minority. So while you all are entitled to keep on doin' what you're doin'... so am I.

Moving on...

According to copyright law, how something is distributed is at the sole discretion of the owner of the copyright. Sure, keeping a super-choke hold on something will probably stifle interest in it, but should everything on this earth be free? You are talking to a group of people on this board who spend hundreds of dollars on artwork and yet some of them won't cough up a penny for a $3 manga. What gives?

With regards to controlling distribution ... my question to you, A-L, is what control have they had thus far? If they had such a choke hold, why did sites like onemanga crop up and grow so large? I would argue the exact opposite of your point: that the manga industry has allowed the free distribution (somehow I doubt a site like onemanga completely escaped their attention for all this time), possibly because they felt the benefits outweighed the losses, but it has become so huge and money so tight that the losses now outweigh the benefits. Who can blame them for trying to reign it in?

CB: Your argument would make sense to me if we were talking about something that is absolutely necessary to say... sustain life. But, honestly -- when did we determine that a poor college student has the right to read manga? Heck, by that rationale, I'd love to have a closet filled with nothing but designer clothing! So, because I want it, does that mean I should get it for free? I'm of the opinion that if you can't afford it, you don't get to have it. Where did this sense of entitlement come from, anyways?

[Sky Rat]

You are talking to a group of people on this board who spend hundreds of dollars on artwork and yet some of them won't cough up a penny for a $3 manga. What gives?

Where are you finding manga for $3?? The stuff I’ve been buying costs $10-13.

I remember the days when it all cost $16.99 though, so you won’t be hearing any complaints from me.

Anyway, I'm not against your stance here. More in the middle. Seems in general the opinions were pretty evenly split actually.

[iceman57]

Most of the comments that I've read, at least in regards to anger over people not buying manga/anime, are coming from people who are adults in first world countries, and have their own credit cards/job.

Lol, I'm born close to a coal mine, in a sinistred job area. Not what I'll call "richie rich".
Even not having cash in family, parents learned me a basic rule : "Thou shall not steal" (yeah and oldie one but soooooo important)

...When I was in college my parents gave me money to buy food. That’s where most of my manga funds came from. Heh.

Mine told me "great you've a part time job/study, where is your part for the rent"

Sure, keeping a super-choke hold on something will probably stifle interest in it, but should everything on this earth be free? You are talking to a group of people on this board who spend hundreds of dollars on artwork and yet some of them won't cough up a penny for a $3 manga. What gives?

F*** yes, you're right !!! 1000% right !!! Finally someone writing it down.
I wrote pages on this in my thesis work. When you ask "what gives" you certainly think that this is totally hypocritic, but in fact this is simply narcissism.

Same when they have $5 of extra taxes fees from Post office while they paid $1000 for the goods and the fake invoice is already wrote 4000 JPY and not $1000.
All that is to play legally the game does not finance the collection, so they consider this as optional (while deputy fees are not consider to be due to addiction). Maybe pathetic will fit too...

But... from a strategic/psychologic point of view this is extremely interesting, that shows that actual buyers have a financial limit and did not disconnect from the money itself. They are confortable, highly for some, but not rich at all