Retake cels

[kizu]

Hi. Can someone explain to me what "re-take (retake)" cels are? How does one tell, are there any indications/symbols on the cels itself. I know the retake cels I've seen have sequence numbers on them too. Thanks!

[sensei]

I've never encountered this particular term, but perhaps it means cels from a rejected take of a scene that was later reanimated with different cels? I've usually heard these called "test cels," though maybe "re-take cels" is a more accurate term.

I have a few cels, from CCS and TnN that fit this category. The "transfiguration" scene from the CCS "Sleeping Beauty" episode (#42) is the most notorious, as I've seen many more cels on the market from rejected versions of this scene than those who went under the camera for the final production version. It evidently was remade at least three times, with different coloring choices and even different animation in places.

I did a little visual guide to illustrate some of the differences, some subtle, others not, between the "tests" and "production" cels. It still intrigues me to see tests continue to go up on YJ and sell for top dollar.

No, these are not marked in any consistent way, though I have noted that the sequence numbers are quite different at times, perhaps reflecting a process in which different tests of the same image might be numbered A1, A2, A3, etc., regardless of what the actual sequence number of the final production cel might be.

While I don't know, I suspect my lovely AMG OVA Belldandy cel, marked simply "3" in the upper right corner, is the third in a series of color tests rather than the actual production number. Otherwise, the only way to tell for sure is to freeze the frame in your copy of the show and compare it carefully to the cel.

I hope this is what you were asking about, kizu. Gomenasai if I've gone off topic.

[darksuzaku]

Or maybe he's refering to error cels? I mean cels where there has been an error, ussually wrong coloring. Many times a new layer is used in top of the cel to correct the error. Others, the cel is discarded and another one is redone.

I have (or used to have) cels like this.

I remember a Kyoko cel from Maison Ikokku where she's talking to someone using a telephone. The telephone was wrongly colored black, and a new layer was used on top to reflect the correct pink color.

Also have a Madoka (from KOR) where she's holding a flower . The flower was colored with the wrong color (red instead of pink). They discarded the cel and made a new one. (Seems that making a layer on top was not an easy option).

[sensei]

That's a "kabuse" (cover, correction) layer. Keys' Little Anime Cel FAQ has a section on this issue.

Sometimes I see kabuse layers marked the same as the layer they're correcting, with a little subscript "1" at the end. (E.g., A10/1). Or sometimes they say "kabuse" in katakana: ã‚«ãƒ

[aethel]

[quote="sensei"] ã‚«ãƒ

[sensei]

Wouldn't that be kabaa.. aka "cover"?

Sorry -- I grabbed the first "cover" equivalent I found online. I think the correct katakana is カブセ.

[kizu]

I agree with sensei about "kabuse", it's usually used to cover up something wrong in the cel and they don't want to do re-do the entire cut/scene... if it's just a small easily fixable error. I actually have a cover cel and recently got a retake cel. I'm eyeing another retake cel right now actually. LOL.

I am wondering if it would be accurate to say that the cel was used in initial filming and then replaced by another series of cels. For example I have a cel that has a sequence number but then they seemed to have decided to go for a multi-layer cut-out effect cel (unpainted parts for light effects), instead of the fully painted one. So in essence there would be two cels with the same sequence number, one used to film initially and then the "retake" film? But it is a bit of a misnomer to call the initial cels as retake cels... LOL... Much as they are "test" cels.

[sensei]

"Out-take" cel might be a useful term, though I don't know that I've ever seen it used. That might also cover a large number of cels that were not remade but for some reason ended up on the cutting room floor in the final version. I have a couple of cels that were intended to go at the very start or end of a cut, but in fact the scene was trimmed a bit, and so the first visible frame in the final production version is a bit after (or the cut ends a bit before) the cel I have.

Or (another example) the cut was split in the middle and a flash cut to another character was inserted. In such cases a couple of cels in the middle end up never being used. Tenshi ni Narumon is full of little out-takes like this.

Here's one example:

http://sensei.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... mID=153737

Interesting issue: those sheets of plastic tell us a lot about how the show got put into final form.

[irmgaard]

I've seen the term retake cel (リテイクセル) used for cels, frequently from subcontractors, that were rejected because there was something incorrect (and not easily correctable by over-painting or some other means) and they needed to be redone... they never come with a douga, as it would have been used for the corrected cel that was actually used.

In the case of the cel now on Mandy, it's pretty obvious why this cel was rejected:


Since the screencap shows Tomoe's scarf and kimono (obi, etc.) in totally different colors, it was doubtless easier to re-take than overpaint:


(not to mention her thumb...and his arm-guards...)

[kizu]

Yep I know of that cel in Mandarake auctions. For others here is the link http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auc_e/item ... 6190100001

In that particular cel it definitely has errors considering what part it is in the ova and what immediately preceded it. I am curious however if retake cel is all encompassing for anything that is cut out from filming (or even re-filmed) such as errors or change in desired effects or just change by the director... Or if retake cels just applies to the ones like the mandarake cel above where there was an error in the cel.

[irmgaard]

I kinda wonder who made the error with that RK OVA cel. It’s obviously painted very well.
Maybe the cel painters were given the wrong colors for Tomoe…especially since she wears that kimono in other scenes…
and how much of that scene was painted before someone caught it?

As for Kenshin’s arm-guards, they seem to have been the bête noire of whoever was doing the QC on this OVA.
At least they caught it this time!

Two glaring examples where they didn’t:


They’re on as he drinks the sake Tomoe poured for him.


Closeup and they’re off!


And then they’re back again!
I’d have to drink a lot of sake before I’d miss that gaff !

And the very worst one….at such a moment …right after they focused on his hands!