What has happened to this cel?

[MajinTangerine]

Hey all, I recently acquired my holy grail cel, a Majin Vegeta. The cel is beautiful, but I have some concern on how it has spent its life.

When I opened the package, I found the cel clinging to its bag. Like it has been in the same bag for many, many, many years. the bag has left marks on the paint on the reverse of the cel.





Is this anything to worry about? The cel its self is beautiful, and I am please to have gotten it.

Another concern is the Ki layer. It was advertised as "stuck", but when I removed the old bag it fell off from the Vegeta layer. The Ki effect layer, when picking it up, curls each end towards the center. I am a noob at cels, but I do not think that is normal?


Thanks for all the help folks! I appreciate it!

Cody

[JWR]

Look like the cel was stored flat in a book with many more books or other "weight" on top of it causing that effect. Not really anything one can do to "fix" it.
I store my cels in books that are then stored on end "spine up" to avoid and chance of further damage.

[Jadeduo]

Most of the older pieces I have, have this problem it comes from being stored in bags that were never changed the waving is caused by a combination of pressure like JWR said and the fumes from the paint building up and causing the bag and the paint to wrinkle.

This is why I am such and advocate about doing a bag change out every few years.

JD

[Drac of the Sharp Smiles]

I have a few cels that are like this on the back from bags they were in when I received them from various sellers. Most of mine that are like this are ones with black paint on the back of the normal paint. It doesn't seem to have any averse effect on the cel and I've never seen one that shows damage on the front from having the back look like this, so it's a condition I've largely ignored. Like JWR said, when I re-bag them, all my cels are stored in books that are upright so nothing is on top of them. Or I hang the books from my closet bar.

As for the curling, I think I know what you're talking about... I have one Nightwalker cel that has an airbrush effects layer, which was supposedly stuck. When I opened it to scan it, the layer curled up and came (mostly) free of the rest. I can't offer an idea of why it did. I was worried the curling might be the start of vinegar syndrome, but I've been watching it like a hawk for years and it seems and smells otherwise normal. (*shrug*) I wish I could offer advice. I would keep it in the back of your mind and watch it for any other oddness, like I am with mine.

Many Sharp Smiles,
--Drac

[sensei]

When a cel has been in the same bag for over-long, it does tend to generate some byproducts of the plastic sheet's slow chemical action. I've seen this in the form of a hazy powder build-up on the surface of the cel, which follows the wrinkles of the damaged cel bag. That can be removed with some gentle soap and water. I'd say clean the cel and allow it to air out in the open for more than 24 hours. It is a good thing that the layer is not stuck, and when you do bag the cel, be sure to include an extra plastic layer between the ki cel and its partner. That will keep them from getting stuck, and also provide a way for fumes coming from the surfaces in between them to vent.

So long as the curl of the ki layer is an even one and you do not see the sheet itself puckering up or distorting, I think your wishlist is in good condition. Might be a good idea to put a microchamber paper sheet in the bag (on the front, so it doesn't stick). And slit the cel bag down one entire side, the same side as the pocket in your cel book, to provide adequate ventilation.

[MajinTangerine]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it!

[MajinTangerine]

I thought I would post an update.

I removed the cel from its new cel bag to inspect it this evening, and I noticed that the top of the Vegeta layer now has a slight curl to it. I do not remember it being this way when I first received it, so what could have caused this to happen? The temperature where the cel has been stored has been a constant temp, and just in case it had issues, I have secluded it inside a showcase where there is no light since it arrived.

I did not notice a vinegary smell, just typical paint.


Ugh, this is turning out to be a nightmare

[Jadeduo]

@MajinTangerine - Don't worry about it too much, I have a few pieces where the top layer curls. You should just be diligent about watching it for any weird behavior.

Make sure you do everything that was suggested here, spending a day airing it out, I would add a full piece of microchamber to the piece when you bag it to further arrest and chemical reactions, and when you bag it leave one side open so the fumes don't have a chance to build up.

This DBGT piece I got curled and smelled really sour when I first got it, I aired it out for like a month put microchamber paper all over the front and in between the layers where I could and then bagged it. I took it out of the bag recently and it is 100x better than when I got it.

http://jadeduo.rubberslug.com/gallery/i ... mID=371990

Best of luck and I am sure you are I fine I know it's scary when this happens on a big wishlist piece, but don't sweat it! We got your back!

JD

[sensei]

I agree: none of this seems ominous to me, though your close observation of the cel is a good practice. Sick cels won't just curl, they will buckle and distort, and if you don't think you can smell vinegar, your cel is OK. Vinegar syndrome is stinky and unmistakable, detectable even before you get the bag open.

Letting the cel outgas is the best thing you can do right now. If it does not have a prominent chemical smell from a distance, then it's OK to rebag and store it.

[MajinTangerine]

Thanks guys, im letting the vegeta layer sit out tonight and tomorrow

[MajinTangerine]

Well, the Vegeta layer has been airing out for a while now, so I checked on it. The curl has reduced in amount, but is still there. Hopefully it will reduce more.

[sensei]

Not a very scientific opinion, but I'd suspect that the cel came saturated with moisture, which started to disperse when you left it out to air. The side facing up would do this quicker than the side facing down, and so it would tend to curl that way. As both sides air out, this curl would tend to settle down.

[Krafty]

Regarding a 2-layer (stuck) cel, the curl happens when the paint of one layer (which has the greater painted surface) expands a little over time. I remember a bit about this process from Chemistry lessons at school with bimetallic strips, perhaps copper and zinc. Since both metals have different melting points, one expands more than the other causing the strip to curl. A similar process happens with the acetate and paint, just on a much more subtle level.

Some collectors/dealers suggest snipping a corner off the cel bag to allow the fumes to escape. This can reduce the rippling effect on the bag. Check out diferent bags too as polyproplene/mylar bags react differently depending on their manufacture/grade.
Perhaps I'll check out some of my old cels to advise what types of bag stand up best to long term cel storage.

The advice of changing bags every 3-5 years is good; not just because they stink over time!

[backlotanimation]

What you are seeing is normal paint shrinkage on the cel. Cels with alot of paint are sometimes dried with a blow drier at the studios do to short production times so the paint on the back drys faster than what touches the back side of the cel and causes curl. they don't worry about it at the studio because they place them under glass to shoot the cel on camera so it's held flat for what they need. cels are trash to them so what happens after production is not even on their minds. As the others have said as long as you have no vinegar smell your good. just use a acid free backing board like they do with comic books to hold it flat in your storage books. The waviness in the paint on the back is normal also, the paint is put on thick and fast and dried, it gets shiny do to the cel bag rubbing it smooth over time.

Roy Aka Backlotanimation