Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

For the n00bs of cel collecting and production art . . . and for some of us old-timers, too. Post your questions on anything that puzzles you.
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Re: Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

Post by sensei » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:07 am

You're welcome, Pixel. It always pleases me to see a piece of production art put in stable condition, even if it's been carelessly damaged in the past.
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Re: Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

Post by Pixel » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:51 pm

Frankly, I'm not the best custodian of such collectibles myself. I don't really have the best place to put them at the moment. I do try to do my best with the resources I have.

I had to handle the filmoplast with bare fingers, and work it loose from the adhesive. I messed the roll up early on, and have to fight to separate each piece from the backing strip. It's still worlds better than what was on the layout though.

I'm gonna see if I can get a picture to attach showing the improvement in the dark spots.

NOTE: Attachments are still a bit wonky, it looks like it will show up at the bottom of the post.

I likely have at least one more genga repair job in my future. Is it possible there was something wrong with the exact eucalyptus oil I bought that caused, or contributed to the spots? I remember you said "steam-distilled", I don't think what I got though.

Here's what I got. Now 100% Pure and Certified Organic Eucalyptus Oil, from GNC
http://www.gnc.com/essential-oils/05126 ... lt&start=1

Maybe something "Certified Organic" reacted with the paper?

I'm just trying to figure it out to reduce the risk of it happening in the future. It worked out well on this genga, but one made from different paper might exhibit something the doesn't go away so well. If I chose the wrong eucalyptus oil, I want to fix that.

What brand of oil do you use, sensei? Could you show me a picture of the bottle?

I know I've posted this thing like a million times, but in showing item post repair, hopefully another collector will benefit from all the knowledge and experience recorded here.

Azumanga Daioh Layout, repairs complete (I think this is the right pic. Sorry for the bad lighting.)

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Sometimes, when I feel kind of down, I take a look at what is actually just the seller's scan of this layout, and it just makes me feel better. I can't explain why. Does that sound strange?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Remains of the Dark Spot, Upper Left Corner

Much, much better. With time, it may simply go away completely. In any case, it just missed Yomi, and I'm so relieved. All three girls came through the process in great shape. The one thing I can say for the bad tape was that it maintained registration until proper repair could be effected.
Attachments
azu_c6e13_uleft_sm.jpg
azu_c6e13_uleft_sm.jpg (78.53 KiB) Viewed 50 times

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Re: Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

Post by sensei » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:52 pm

Pixel wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:51 pm
I likely have at least one more genga repair job in my future. Is it possible there was something wrong with the exact eucalyptus oil I bought that caused, or contributed to the spots? I remember you said "steam-distilled", I don't think what I got though.

Here's what I got. Now 100% Pure and Certified Organic Eucalyptus Oil, from GNC
http://www.gnc.com/essential-oils/05126 ... lt&start=1

Maybe something "Certified Organic" reacted with the paper?

I'm just trying to figure it out to reduce the risk of it happening in the future. It worked out well on this genga, but one made from different paper might exhibit something the doesn't go away so well. If I chose the wrong eucalyptus oil, I want to fix that.
From what I see I think all that is there is the first-level damage that occurs from the use of high-acid adhesive: it begins to make the paper slightly more transparent, then the paper gradually begins to "burn" around the edges of the tape, producing the typical orange color. Getting the tape and the sticky adhesive off should stop or at least dramatically slow any further damage. But it won't repair the damage already caused. So my sense is that what you're seeing is tape damage that wasn't as clearly visible when you had the tape on top of it. Your best bet is to put a white backing behind it, which will make the transparency of the paper less visible.

If the brand you used was 100% eucalyptus oil, then there won't be anything that will react with the paper. I have seen some minor staining with an old bottle oil that I'd had for quite a while, but a fresh bottle won't cause any problem. You may see a "tide mark" on older colored paper or more often on an original watercolor background that has had (ick!) a cel stuck directly to it with celotape. That's just gunk and dirt that the oil dislodges and deposits at the edge of where it's put on. I take a cotton ball and dab the ring gently with a teeny bit of the oil, which breaks up the tide mark and scatters the gunk more randomly.

For the record, my bottle comes from Now Essential Oils and is labeled 100% pure eucalyptus, steam distilled from leaves and small branches. I get it in 16 oz. bottles on Amazon. (And do keep these large bottles locked up away from pets and kids, as it is poisonous and can cause dermatitis if spilled on bare skin.)

Here's a newly obtained sketch (from ca. 1999) that's about to go onto the operating table for a celotapectomy:
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And a detail of the tape and the damage it's caused:
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The orange burning won't ever come out, but there are still places where the damage hasn't gotten as severe. When I get the tape off, though, you will still be able to see some of the typical transparency caused by the adhesive, and all I can do is back it with white (typically a sheet of microchamber paper) to make it less visible.
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Re: Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

Post by Pixel » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:33 pm

The reason I was wondering about the oil is because I couldn't see the spots through the front until I applied the oil to it. It didn't seem the oil should have done anything, but it was a puzzle. The dark spot also seemed to run with the oil, but that may be an illusion caused by the studio tape that was on the front in that spot.

My bottle is also Now Essential Oils, though I didn't see steam-distilled on it.

As long as I didn't make a mistake somewhere in the process, that was all I was concerned about. I admit, I worried a little bit about doing it at first, but once that first big thick piece of tape practically slid off, I let out a little yelp of glee. I knew for sure I was on the right track.

I still can't help but be a bit uneasy about the process though looking forward. Different genga may require slightly different approaches in which piece of tape is removed when, for example. I caught a break this time, in that there was not tape on the middle. That let me stabilize the piece there, and work around it a bit.

I know this doesn't strictly fall under repair, but do you think framing this genga for display would be too risky as far as damage from light goes? As much as I'd like to display it, if it's too risky I'd best leave it in the itoya, with the other genga and douga. Between a hurried studio and a rough prior history somewhere in the process, it's been through enough.

(I use genga/layout interchangeably, I remember you told me it was a layout correction, hence the tape in the first place.)

That's a cool sketch of yours, is that Asatte no Houko? I hope I said that right.

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Re: Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

Post by sensei » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:55 am

Sorry -- I've been crazy busy and my updating is going at a snail's pace. No, it's from a Toei series called Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne (Jeanne, God's Holy Thief), which is an edgy variation on the more popular Saint Tail. (The main character does a henshin into Joan of Arc reincarnated as a magical girl and steals things that are possessed by demons and so are Bad for their owners.) I haven't done the celotape removal, as the tape is on both sides and needs more care than usual, and also I need to make sure that the photocopy print isn't the kind that smudges when solvent is applied.

But I have got it up at long last: http://sensei.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... mID=417070. And the next one shows the reanimation. Merging the eyes with the head layer was as tricky as the one you posted about lately (and I don't have an easy solution). But in the end it worked.

KKJ has an insanely complicated backstory: suffice it to say that Maron is secretly Jeanne and Chiaki is really Sinbad the Satanist, Jeanne's diabolical opponent, and Miyako is the daughter of the Chief of Police and has sworn to capture Jeanne and put her in jail. Oh, and there are teeny angelic magical helpers, one on God's side and one supposedly on the devil's side, but the bad one is in love with the good one, and the good teeny angel has been secretly brainwashed by the baddies so she's actually an evil magical helper and so the bad teeny angel has defected from the darkside and ....

Anyhow Toei got 44 episodes out of it and while the anime was never licensed, the manga was translated into English and remains something of a classic in the shoujo genre. It kinda paved the way for Madoka Magica, another totally twisted magical girl series.
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Re: Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

Post by Pixel » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:37 pm

Sounds like a wild story, and rather difficult to keep up with.

Incidently, I hope it's okay, I gave a shout out to you on the RS page in which I presented this layout.

I've got another genga-like piece that I should work on soon. It's a photocopy, but it came with a genga set, and has tape all over both sides of it. I'm not exactly sure how to go about fixing that one-the tape is still holding on both sides, so it won't be so easy as the studio tape was on this Azu genga here. I wondering if it's worth it for just a copy. I think it is a studio copy however, not just something that was copied by an owner.

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Re: Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

Post by sensei » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:45 pm

I would go easy with photocopies. The one that I showed above got done earlier today, and unfortunately the photocopy print did smudge and bleed through somewhat. It was toward the top of the page, not in a critical place, but it did "bleed through" the paper. So if there was some print or photocopy on the page, it's just possible that the solvent loosened that. I've taken tape off lots of photocopied pages, so it's not a 100% taboo. But it's common enough that it's worth trying the solvent on an inconspicuous place. Dip the swab gently into the solvent, then rub it on a black line, then look at the tip. If it's picked up black, the photocopy is soluable, and you'd better try something else or (sigh) live with the tape.

Oh, KKJ is fun to watch, the more so as it's perfectly obvious what is going on. So it is on some level hilarious that Maron doesn't have a clue that Chiaki is her magical rival Sinbad, and that Miyako can't recognize either one of them at the scene of their crimes. The only differences between their real-life and magical forms are their costumes and the color of their hair. Otherwise they look exactly the way they look in their everyday "secret" identities. (But, yeah, I have this same problem with Clark Kent and Superman...)

And what's not to like about a series with a cute magical helper who turns out to be evil! (Think Kyubey in Madoka Magica, a series I need to watch again soon.)
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Re: Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

Post by Drac of the Sharp Smiles » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:30 am

This looked like a crazy level of rough de-taping job you faced here. Nicely done! It's good to have experience removing tape -- something I sadly started much later than I should have with my collection.

Sensei is a wealth of knowledge on it and I also remain grateful for the help I received on the same subject when I started. ^_^

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Re: Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

Post by Pixel » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:56 pm

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this.
Drac of the Sharp Smiles wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:30 am
Sensei is a wealth of knowledge on it and I also remain grateful for the help I received on the same subject when I started. ^_^
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Drac of the Sharp Smiles wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:30 am
This looked like a crazy level of rough de-taping job you faced here. Nicely done! It's good to have experience removing tape -- something I sadly started much later than I should have with my collection.
Well, it was worse than I initially thought, but it was absolutely worth it. I was scrolling down through the thread about a week ago or so, I hadn't see the drawing in awhile, and Osaka sort of startled me a bit. I don't known why I'm so taken with it.

I don't look at it and say "No one will ever find a better piece of Azumanga production art than this." I don't actually think that way anyway. I just enjoy it as a simple yet high-quality piece of animation art.

I've got something new to deal with, though. In the Website/Gallery forum, I posted about a Sakkan no Genga set from Azu Ep 25, Cut 7. I mentioned a white sheet of paper containing a matching photocopied BG sketch. This photocopy has tape all over the front and back of the top- I'd say at least 6 pieces. It even appears to have been torn down the right hand side for some reason. Upon turning the piece around, I discovered the top is be a piece of what I expect was once the top section of a layout from elsewhere in the series, heavily shaded in pencil. I don't think it's the original top of the E6/C13 layout correction I can't seem to shut up about, because there is no evidence of such shading anywhere on that piece.

I have a picture of the photocopy BG sketch. I know I did a terrible job with the photography.

Image

With it just being basically a photocopy of a background sketch, is it even worth the risk to try to remove the tape?

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Re: Need Advice Repairing Paper (gengas, layout, etc.)

Post by Drac of the Sharp Smiles » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:01 am

Only you can decide how much effort you want to put into copies. My decision with regard to copies is more a flow chart of decisions.

(1) How much do I particularly like the copy page?
I'm not a fan of copies. Most of the time, the only value they have to me is informational. (Cut scene numbers/etc.) I say "most of the time" because there are a few copied sheets I genuinely like a lot. For those few, I'm more willing to go the mile to protect them by removing tape. Copy sheets with tape on them and no real image are skipped. I bag all copies separate anyhow, so tape on them isn't a risk to the rest of the sketch set.

(2) How close is the tape to the copied image and/or what lines/pieces of the image would be sacrificed to remove it?
We're talking about risk assessment here. If the tape is very small or otherwise not near the image, I'm more likely to remove it. For copies I care more about, I will occasionally sacrifice a TINY, MINOR piece of image to remove tape. (Ex: A single line or part of a bounding box at the edge, but never the primary image or informational marks.) I've removed some pieces of tape and left others, even on the same sketch, because some were easy to get at with little risk to the image and the others would have sacrificed too much to remove. In one situation I removed 3/4 of a piece of tape and left the last tiny bit which was over a major part of the copied image. Yes, that piece might still turn bad on me, but most of it is gone and the image is intact.

(3) What is the condition of the tape?
I never bother with tape on copies when the tape has already gone completely south. If the paper is tape-burnt under the tape in question, I bag it separately and leave it. The time and effort to remove it is better spent on pieces that can be saved from being tape-burnt. I might revisit this later, but I doubt it for copies. As I've been removing the tape from my collection, even non-copy sketches that have "can't really get worse" levels of bad tape are noted and skipped in favor of more immediately removing tape from sketches which haven't yet suffered permanent damage. (Though for already-damaged non-copy sketches, I will be going back and removing what's left of their tape at the end.)

So, just as an example, if I had the sketch you showed and were considering what to do, my thoughts would be it is an image of interest and the tape seems to be minimal. I'd definitely target the piece on the upper right corner, as it looks like it doesn't overlap anything and you appear to have an okay amount of room to work on it. I would not touch the center piece next to that since it's smack across the episode number and the C for indicating "cut scene". The piece that I think I see on the upper left is one of the gray zone pieces. I would have to think about if removing the tape was more important than the three ends of lines which would be sacrificed to remove it. I would probably choose to remove it -- MY opinion only and you might not share that opinion!! The corner of those lines does make it feel like the back wall is more "finished", so I can see why it would be also desirable to leave them intact. That would be one of those tough calls.

That said, I'll mention I have ONCE (and only once) successfully removed tape from directly ON a copied image without majorly damaging the image. It was a copy genga of an image I adore. One end of the tape was over a hand and the opposite end of the tape was already starting to turn bad, which was the deciding factor to risk removing it. I spent FOREVER working around those tiny lines and still accidentally smudged one the smallest bit. So if you're absolutely desperate to get rid of a piece of tape and it's over a copied image, it is at least sometimes possible, but it will take you a LOT of time to MAYBE not damage it. I don't recommend trying. It's not something I see myself doing again either.

Just my thoughts!

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