Stuck sketches= do they damage the cel?

bulma_gt · Post by **bulma_gt** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:58 am

I've had this question in my head for quite a while. I know that if we want to put some paper sheet behind of cels we have to get acid-free paper otherwise the acidity of it could damage the cel. My question is: is it recommendable to remove the sketch from the cel? Im sure the studios don't use acid-free paper to make the sketches, so that paper could damage the cel in the future.

Am I right? am I wrong? I have some very old cels with stucked sketches and it's impossible to separate them. Advise please?

EternityOfPain · Post by **EternityOfPain** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:57 am

You bring a very important point. I am no expert (I am sure they will post later) but I will rely on what i know. When there are many sketches in a bag to preserve (and so they do not damage each other) Bond paper is used. I can say for sure that the sketches that they use for the cels are not on bond paper and thus could be an abrasive towards the cel (which is why cels that don't have stuck sketches are worth more for obvious reasons). As much as I agree that overtime the sketches may slightly deteriorate the cel. I would STRONGLY advise not removing them if they are very stuck. The main reason is by you pulling the sketch off you are most likely to damage the cel far greater then if the sketch was to simply remain on the back of the cel. However if the sketch can be taken off (judged by you to be easily) then I would recommend going for it as it could help the overall preservation of the cel. My overall suggestion is simply replace the cel bag every year or two which is really all you can do for the very stuck sketches on the cels. Unless of course you can fly down to Roy in florida then he might be able to remove it for you. Hope this helped at least a bit

.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:36 am

paper probably protects the cel! Just don't apply pressure and it won't stick!

aernath · Post by **aernath** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:25 am

I always remove the sketch. Any rubbing of the sketch against the cel can scratch the cel.
Several times I've had to sacrifice the sketch, but to me the cel is more important.
Just be Very careful in the removal. If it's plastered to the paint, cut around the area Very carefully.

But that's just me.
I like saying, "This sketch is TOAST!!!!"'roll
rar

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:48 am

Oops! Nm... You should remove the sketch and send them to me!

not Aernath! unless it's ichigo!

klet · Post by **klet** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:58 am

From my understanding, it's best to remove the sketch from the cel, especially if the sketch is stuck face down ('cuz what's the point of it if you can't see it?

).

It helps to moisten the sketch first. If you don't, you're more likely to remove chips of paint and trace lines.

<--has done just that a couple of times.

bulma_gt · Post by **bulma_gt** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:01 pm

The problem is that I have lots of cels that are 20 years old or more and the only solution to that is to destroy the sketch. So I was wondering how recommendable would be to leave the sketch stuck, knowing that is not acid-free paper.

wELCOME cONSUMER · Post by **wELCOME cONSUMER** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:36 pm

When a sketch is stuck to one of my cels, I use a combination of bottled water and tweezers to pick it apart. I don't collect sketches and don't value them as much as my cels, so I have no problem destroying a sketch to preserve a cel. The water will weaken the paper and allow you to tweeze it away from the cel without bothering the paint. Just take your time and go slow, otherwise the paint will chip off along with the paper.

RatherSilent · Post by **RatherSilent** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:41 am

I apology for posting and disturbing the board. There was actually a very interesting discussion about how to removel sketches from cel a while back on Rubberslug. The topic is "stuck cels: how to unstick from sketches".

http://www.rubberslug.com/board/showthread.asp?T=919

It discuss how to remove sketches from cels without damages to cel. If you remove sketches dry, there is a high risk of damaging the fine details (such as hair or trace lines) of the cel. Using a damp towel over the sketch for a few minutes will make it easier to remove. I did it a few times successfully since the cels were not very stuck to the sketch. I also heard of people placing them in the freezer for a few minutes. I never try the freezer technique myself though. I personally think the cool mist idea discussed at Rubberslug is probably the best, but I have not had stucked cel/sketch lately to try it, so I can't really say if it work or not. It may be good to try to practice with a few free cels first until you decide on the best technique you like. Good luck.

Sincerely,

RS

aernath · Post by **aernath** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:23 pm

YAY! Disturb the board some more!

We like it!

Yeah, humidity is my personal friend. That's how I got most of my stuck sketches off. Plus some rather warm breathing on some of them that just needed a little urging.

YES! Send all your Ichigo sketches to meeeeee!

Sugarflower · Post by **Sugarflower** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:52 pm

klet wrote:From my understanding, it's best to remove the sketch from the cel, especially if the sketch is stuck face down ('cuz what's the point of it if you can't see it? ).

It helps to moisten the sketch first. If you don't, you're more likely to remove chips of paint and trace lines.

<--has done just that a couple of times.

I've damaged MANY Mahoujin Guru Guru cels this way, no matter how careful I tried to pry the sketch from the cel.

I was always afraid to use the water method because I don't want the sketch damaged (even though I manage to stupidly damage the cel).

I'm definately going to re-read that RS post but if anyone would like to make a tutorial for DUMMIES that has a super simple method for sketch removal

then please be my guest. (I really need one, lol)

Moop · Post by **Moop** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:53 pm

Count me in the group that never leaves a sketch stuck to the cel.

I moisten them as little as possible, and only in the areas that have adhered. After they have sat long enough for the moisture to be completely absorbed by the paper, I carefully peel them off in one piece. If I'm lucky, the only damage is some wrinkling of the paper - which, when I'm not feeling lazy, I iron out. Worst case: some of the pencil lines are destroyed. Either way, I'm still happier than when they were stuck. For me, it's all about aesthetics, acidity and the unnecessary potential for cracking paint.

klet · Post by **klet** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:58 pm

I wouldn't recommend the freezer method. The one time I did that, the paint cracked.

Sugarflower · Post by **Sugarflower** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:22 pm

Moop wrote:Count me in the group that never leaves a sketch stuck to the cel.

I moisten them as little as possible, and only in the areas that have adhered. After they have sat long enough for the moisture to be completely absorbed by the paper, I carefully peel them off in one piece. If I'm lucky, the only damage is some wrinkling of the paper - which, when I'm not feeling lazy, I iron out. Worst case: some of the pencil lines are destroyed. Either way, I'm still happier than when they were stuck. For me, it's all about aesthetics, acidity and the unnecessary potential for cracking paint.

Ok, time for a question bombardment.

1) What if the sketch is super glued to the cel? Well, not literally WITH super glue, lol, but they are so severely stuck together that you wouldn't think they would ever part no matter what.

2) Also, distilled water is best to use?

3) Does ironing really work for getting wrinkles out of sketches? They won't get burn marks from the iron?

4) Do you repair your cels if you do happen to damage them by removing the sketches? For instance my Mahoujin Guru Guru cels have paint loss where the drawing lines should be. Can you use black acrylic paint to paint these areas?

Sugarflower · Post by **Sugarflower** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:25 pm

klet wrote:I wouldn't recommend the freezer method. The one time I did that, the paint cracked.

Were you trying to remove the sketch from the cel with this method? I never tried and never will now thanks to your warning. I do use it for seperating cel layers though. Haven't had any damage to a cel.... yet. *knocks on wood*