Anime-Beta TNG

Hi.

I need some advice on the best type of bags to use for cels and gengas because I plan to display some in my room.

From researching, I identify 3 types of bags: polyethylene, polypropylene, and polyester (mylar).

I hear Polyester (mylar) is not good for cels because it will stick to the paint. Is it suitable for gengas?

For cels, I want to fight against sticking and line fading; for gengas, I want to fight against the paper becoming yellow over time.

Any feedback would be appreciated based on everyone's experiences.

Thanks in advance.

gundamx2 wrote:Hi.

I need some advice on the best type of bags to use for cels and gengas because I plan to display some in my room.
From researching, I identify 3 types of bags: polyethylene, polypropylene, and polyester (mylar).
I hear Polyester (mylar) is not good for cels because it will stick to the paint. Is it suitable for gengas?
For cels, I want to fight against sticking and line fading; for gengas, I want to fight against the paper becoming yellow over time.
Any feedback would be appreciated based on everyone's experiences.
Thanks in advance.

Here is an article about cel framing : http://www.anime-beta.com/phpBB/viewtop ... 318#327318

Basically, for sketch framing and home exposure you'll require a UV glass (different priority than with cels, where acid is priority as paper not emiting as much acidic fumes). There are several records of sketches that vanished under lightrays but on animation contempory arts and especially recent japanese anime we unfortunaly can only extrapolate conservation from older arts (19th century photography, movie films...).
I had this appointment with a conservation professor specialised in rolls and 1950s animation art preservation for thesis purpose. He confirmed unique difference between Polyester and Polypropylene is rigidity and transparency (Polypropylene less than Polyester on both aspects). Your art need to breath and consequently bags DON'T HAVE TO BE CLOSED as those materials are airproof. Conservation specialist or museaum don't use Polyethylene for arts inventories, the last existing storage is museum grade paper (so called "permanent paper" or "alcalyn barrier" or "barrier paper"). I mix both paper and polyester in my inventories for extremely expensive arts, unique problem is that you can't see the art through. For framing, I'm not using bags as multiplying the number of layers reduce the visibility of art itself, the presence of anti acidic-backboard substitute for bags.
I'm know reading carefully professor's book about photography and try to report him similities/difference between photography/films time damages and japanese animation. What is actually surprising is that most of listed effect noticed to cels are attached "nitrate cellulose" (so called "flame film" banned from the US) than triacetate cellulose that was suppose to be japanese sheets. A huge amount of japanese cel samples would be helpful to determine what are cel made of and their reaction to lifetime.

gundamx2 wrote:polyethylene

Got some lines in my books about, so Polyethylene is a recent material was developped in 1996 and offers similar conditions and lifetime than Polyester with an higher rigidity. Restaurators use Polyester that you can buy in wide rolls under the Melinex (R) brand (33 ft long, 5 ft large) for $50. I don't have the exact use of Polyethylene specified, but seems to be in use in photography conservation.

I use mylar bags and mylar stiff pockets for my paper collectibles (Civil War letter, 1860s Hawaii newspaper, 1940s and 1950s comic books,my signed photo autograph collection, autographed cards, etc). If you go to a museum exhibit of documents from the 1700s or 1800s, and if they're not surrounded by a holder you'll see them in mylar.

Not so sure about using mylar for cels. I wouldn't use them myself. That's what I was worried about based on how the cels were reacting to contact with the mylar.

I just use PE and the PPE bags. Plastic bags are a lot better than they were in 1970s. The old bags would degrade fast, turn yellow and become slimy. Those things killed comic books by releasing acid. Vinyl holders were popular for collecting coins back then too and those things destroyed coins (they messed up some of mine). The newer PE and PPE bags are much better, but they still aren't museum archival quality.

Keropi wrote:Not so sure about using mylar for cels. I wouldn't use them myself. That's what I was worried about based on how the cels were reacting to contact with the mylar.

In conservation department I visited they do, but never sealed. I do use this material as I asked about opinion on acrylic paintings conservation to my restauration referent, to National library labs and to Orsay impressionist museum. All confirmed that acrylic is extremely stable to UV light and with appreciable mechanical properties, used to restore damaged arts. I fully understand your fear which is main reaction of cel to acidity that may occur to turn the acetate to be sticky and to melt the paint. I'd have to ask the conservation professor for pictures of the animation arts he showed me during the meeting, that was simply freaking. Bumpy paint, sticky cel and cel turning to desegragate into small parts.

At my side my storage ain't permanent, just temporary before exhibition arts framing, afterwhat I'd have to manage a question similar to bags : What material to use to separate cel layers ?.. and I think that Polyester will offer the more compliant results for sketch and backgrounds as for cels. Additionnaly vertical mounted position will offer a lower "gravity to stuck" cels to others as with only a bunch of cel stored in a book you already see some sticking issues appearing. Unitary packaging vertically stored is actually the unique way I estimate as being valid enough.

Any word from your curator friends on how often one should change their polpropelene bags? I've heard of various time frames(anywhere from 6 months to when the bags yellow) and was wondering if these experts could be more precise.

cutiebunny wrote:Any word from your curator friends on how often one should change their polpropelene bags? I've heard of various time frames(anywhere from 6 months to when the bags yellow) and was wondering if these experts could be more precise.

The last time I visited the restaurator workshop there was a framed art of 19th century (looks like) store under Polyester roll for weeks/months as the last time I had met her was before the Shanghai Exhibition. Polymers in general are in use in restauration/conservation for decades, I even remember when I was schoolar/worker in archives that polyester appeared (that was almost 15 years ago in automotive industry) and even worked with those materials in mechanical design high school two decades ago. As Keropi wrote up the mastering of polymers (plastics) over the 1970s where those materials where recent with now tons of additive materials offer now a better stability. I don't think that bag changes (please non sealed bags or this will catch the acid fumes) will change anything as this is the cel itself which is self generating damages. If material are correct ones, I personnaly estimate that bag changes are a lure and a waste of time/money. I have a supplier's list in Paris due to the presence of museums here, but I think there are certainly suppliers existing all over the world to find adapted bags in certified polymers accepted by museums.

Thanks for the responses and information.

I suppose I can try getting a sample of all 3 and see which one works best.

I was able to see what the polypropylene bags look like at a comic store. I'm not sure if it's because all the bags were stacked together, but it looked kind of foggy and didn't seem like a good candidate for displaying.

I'm probably going to lean towards mylar for sketches. For cels, one of the other 2.

Come to think of it, you know those bags with the blue colors we tend to get when we buy cels from Japan. Is there any site that sells those?

From the bags in use in document conservation there are in "standard" transparent color. From what I remember have read on photography, cyan color is sensible, maybe by coloring bags part of the cyan light spectrum blocks on the bag itself instead of hitting the artwork. Consequently, I may suppose that blue color explanation has two possible ways :
- Meaning additives for a decorative effect
- Meaning UV protection to block a part of light spectrum