Bagging a Cel in a Frame . . . .

[star-phoenix]

Hey guys! So, I am curious. Some people were mentioning in a framing thread that they actually bag their cels when they frame their cels. So, here are my questions for you.

1). Why do you do it?
2). How long have you had a cel framed in their bag?
3). Have you noticed any changes with the bag or cel (ie the bag crinkling, bubbling, etc)?

I am considering on using 1/2 of a cel back to place as a separator for an original cel and background (the cel or background will not be sealed in the bag). I am very nervous about trying this out as I have heard very little research regarding this conservation method. But, also open to the idea.
The paint on the cel I am framing is VERY VERY fragile. So, a conservationist recommended I frame the cel and background pressed together in order to protect the paint on the cel from chipping due to rattling or what not. I presented the idea of using a strip of 100% acid free polyester cel bag to separate the cel from the background in order to protect the paint, but also keeping it from sticking, and the conservationist never heard of it before.
Any thoughts on this?

[JWR]

I have never used a bag in any of the ones I have framed.

What I do is to "float" the cel between 2 matts and then put the background behind the bottom matt.
So I end up with a "sandwich" of Glass, Front Matt, Cel, Back Matt, Background, Backboard.

The face & back of the cel does not contact the glass or background.

[star-phoenix]

I have never used a bag in any of the ones I have framed.

What I do is to "float" the cel between 2 matts and then put the background behind the bottom matt.

That is what I normally do, and it works great. However, the conservationist I spoke to says this particular art piece is so fragile (it is 80 years old), that the paint has to be literally supported in the back by something. So, they strongly recommended I do not use any spacers or mats to space the cel in this particular case.
I brought up the idea about the acid free polyester cel bag, and they told me they never heard of this method before, and was curious about the latest research on it.

So far, the #1 recommendation was to keep sandwiched together with the background for stability and to keep the frame in an upright position at all times (keep gravity from sticking them together). But, I think the cel bag idea is brilliant, and has so much potential as well. I just wish I could get some feedback from people who have framed like this.
I know there are concerns regarding "breathing", but not a problem if the cel is not actually sealed in a bag.

[JWR]

So far, the #1 recommendation was to keep sandwiched together with the background for stability and to keep the frame in an upright position at all times (keep gravity from sticking them together). But, I think the cel bag idea is brilliant, and has so much potential as well. I just wish I could get some feedback from people who have framed like this.
I know there are concerns regarding "breathing", but not a problem if the cel is not actually sealed in a bag.

You might check with SR labs or another source that deals with conservation to be sure especially when dealing with artwork of that age. They may be able to recommend something such as using a heavier duty mylar sheet between the cel and background might be better then enclosing it in a lighter bag. When dealing with art that old I tend to err on the side of caution.

[iceman57]

So far, the #1 recommendation was to keep sandwiched together with the background for stability and to keep the frame in an upright position at all times (keep gravity from sticking them together). But, I think the cel bag idea is brilliant, and has so much potential as well. I just wish I could get some feedback from people who have framed like this.
I know there are concerns regarding "breathing", but not a problem if the cel is not actually sealed in a bag.

I do own 37 years old cels that were bagged and litterally cristalized due to vinaigar symdrom, acidic smell is extreme. Confirmed by head professor of french museum conservation department, the more you seal a cel, the more is acidic reaction active and damaging art. The acidic curve that is normally linear during the first 30 years turns to an exponential one.

You might check with SR labs or another source that deals with conservation to be sure especially when dealing with artwork of that age. They may be able to recommend something such as using a heavier duty mylar sheet between the cel and background might be better then enclosing it in a lighter bag. When dealing with art that old I tend to err on the side of caution.

Instead of a "bag", I do use Melinex 23 microns (US 0.9 mil / 900 microinch) extra thin sheets as interleave between cel and background. Melinex(r) and Mylar(r) are both registered trademarks of the same polymer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_terephthalate).
Their high stability protects background from direct acidic reaction and of course cel to stuck to background. Restorator due use Melinex as a cover to preserve paintings while stored in their workshop, they do also remove it easily.

JWR twin mate montage is extremely interesting, I'll have to discuss about with my framer, unique limit would be the amount of cels to separate (requiring for each cel a matte, with the associated loss of transparency once framed, and requiring larger borders to make all mattes able to fit, maybe to switch from a classic frame to a box-frame).

[iceman57]

Thread revival...

Got my latest frame, using a non-acid technic of multilayer plexiglass, external part with 0.12" thin and inside frame interleaves of 0.06" thin.
Sound to be an excellent protection way.