A few questions

[Thanatos]

Hello,

I'm new in cel collecting, and I would like to know a little more about cels conservation. I have found the answers for most of my questions in the forum, but a few ones remain:

- I read that the polypropylene (in particular the bags) are a great way to conserve cels. But I have also heard about the polyester. Which is the best ?

- I have also heard about letting the cels breathe. I find this is adapted, but what about the dust ?

- For cels conservation, many persons say that Itoya portfolios are very convenient. But which kind of Itoya is optimal, and in which site could it be bought (a site that shipps internationally please) ?

- When you store you cels in an Itoya, should it be stored with the douga ? And do the dougas need a poly bag before being stored in the Itoya ?

- Should the cels be stored in vertical postion or in horizontal position ?

Thanks in advance.

P.S: Sorry, my english is pretty poor.

[cutiebunny]

Well, first of all...welcome to Anime Beta. If you look around this particular forum, you can find a lot of good information about collecting, preserving and everything inbetween.

- I read that the polypropylene (in particular the bags) are a great way to conserve cels. But I have also heard about the polyester. Which is the best ?

For cels, stick with polypropylene (PP) or polyethylene (PE). Polyester is good for paper stuff, but it's more expensive. Cels stick to polyester, so, keep polyester away from the cels. I use PP for cels and PE for paper stuff (including shikishi). I've been using PE for about a year, and I like it better than PP because it breathes and because it's easier to modify to the shape of the object you have without the need to cut stuff off.

- I have also heard about letting the cels breathe. I find this is adapted, but what about the dust ?

If you bag each item and place them in Itoyas, the chance of dust getting into the cel is very small.

- For cels conservation, many persons say that Itoya portfolios are very convenient. But which kind of Itoya is optimal, and in which site could it be bought (a site that shipps internationally please) ?

I use the Itoya Profolios in various sizes. I actually prefer the 18x24 but I also find the 13x19 and 11x17 nice too. I think it depends on the size of artwork that you have. If you have a lot of big or oddly shaped items, then an 18x24 might work out really well for you. But if you have mostly standard sized cels and backgrounds, the 11x17 might be best for you. There are some people on this forum that buy the Itoya pages and then store that in one of the Itoya binders.

Another option may be to buy some of the B4 sized polypropylene folders that are sold in Japanese stores. I have a lot of these folders that I bought at Daiso and, thanks to all the backgrounds I purchased this year, I've gone through a lot of them. I use these folders for backgrounds and for shikishi. I would recommend putting your valuable cels in Itoyas, maybe those items of lesser concern into one of these B4 PP folders.

I don't know who ships internationally. I buy mine on E-bay or Amazon, and there might be some sellers who will ship internationally. If you can't find any, let me know and I can pick one up and send it to you, provided you're willing to pay the shipping costs.

- When you store you cels in an Itoya, should it be stored with the douga ? And do the dougas need a poly bag before being stored in the Itoya ?

1) There is some debate on this. Some people choose to store all of the items together. There are some that choose not to separately bag them, and there are others who will separately bag the cel, background and douga, and then package them in the same bag, together. There are others who place the cels in one folder, the backgrounds in another, and the douga in yet another folder due to the acidic nature of the paper used and so that it won't react with the cel's fumes.

I bag mine separately but then place them all in the same large bag, together. This way, I can keep track of what goes with what. I haven't noticed any deterioration in any of items that I placed together while in my care and I do inspect quite regularly.

2) Yes, I'd put the dougas in a polybag. It helps to keep out dust, bugs, dirt and whatever else could possibly get in there. Besides, you don't want the paper to react with Itoya paper.

- Should the cels be stored in vertical postion or in horizontal position ?

I store the books horizontally so that the pages of the Itoya book do not put pressure on the other pages. Some people choose to make a rack and then hang the spine of the Itoya on the rack. Others choose to store their books on their spine. The main thing you have to worry about with folders and cels is the weight being placed on each individual cel...so, laying them flat and storing several books on top of each other is not a good idea.


Hope this helps

[Thanatos]

Well, thanks a lot for your answers .

So, for cels, the best is PP or PE. But are the bags (like the ones sold by Bagsunlimited) the more adapted method ? And what are the other ways to bag a cel ?

Is there only on kind of Itoya ? Or do exist various types (by the way, thanks a lot for the information, I think I'll try to find a seller on eBay) ?

When I said horizontal or vertical position, I was speaking about the position of the book itself. So, if I understood correctly, the position of your books is vertical (like a classical book), so that there is no much pressure on the cels ?

Thanks in advance again .

[cutiebunny]

So, for cels, the best is PP or PE. But are the bags (like the ones sold by Bagsunlimited) the more adapted method ? And what are the other ways to bag a cel ?

There are many kinds of PP and PE bags available. I like the Japanese PP bags that several deputy services sell (you can buy them at Daiso in Japan). The last time I went to Japan I ended up buying several packages of them. Sometimes I can find them where I live.

The bags on bagsunlimited are fine. I'm using the PE ones for my shikishi and backgrounds right now.

I don't think there are other ways to bag cels. Just make sure to change a cel's bag upon arrival. A lot of Japanese sellers do not use PE or PP bags, so it's best to change the bag upon arrival so you know that it's in a (relatively) acid free bag.

You also want to change your cel bags. I'd recommend inspecting your cels every year and if you notice that there is puckering on the back of the cel, consider changing its bag. That's just the paint reacting with the material and is normal. Also, check for a vinegar smell. A lot of older cels and cels that were not properly taken care of have this smell. If you find one, I'd recommend separating it from the rest of your smells. The vinegar smell means that your cel is rapidly deteriorating and there's not much you can do about it once it reaches that state.

Is there only on kind of Itoya ? Or do exist various types (by the way, thanks a lot for the information, I think I'll try to find a seller on eBay) ?

There's a binder type Itoya where you purchase the pages seperately and you can add as many pages to each folder as you'd like. I don't know too much about it though. You might be able to find some pictures of it on E-bay though. I think there are a few people on this forum that have them.

There are other people who store their sketches in acid free containers and separate them in individual packages like one might see in a file cabinet.

When I said horizontal or vertical position, I was speaking about the position of the book itself. So, if I understood correctly, the position of your books is vertical (like a classical book), so that there is no much pressure on the cels ?

I store my Itoyas so that they are resting on their spine in a dark closet. Some people prefer to have the spine resting on a pole and having the pages hang freely. Regardless of whether you store the portfolio on its spine or the porfolio upright, you're still going to have to deal with gravity. Keep your cels (and sketches) away from light as much as possible.

[sensei]

The most convenient type of bag that's offered by bagsunlimited is called "Large Life Magazine" size. (In inches, that's 10 7/8 inches by 14 1/4 inches.) You can get that in PP or PE. It is just exactly the right size to put a regular sized cel into with the wide side down. This leaves a big flap, and I put a piece of cardstock slightly bigger than the cel behind the bagged and then stick the flap to it on the reverse side with a little piece of scrapbooking (acid-free) tape. The cardstock protects the cel, and I also like to choose a color that compliments the design of the cel.

Like many collectors, I used to slide the douga behind the bagged cel and the cardstock and the Profolio page. As that is acid-free, it should not hurt the sketch. But it is easy to accidentally fold a corner over when you slide the cel out and back in, so now as I replace old bags with new ones, I am putting the dougas into the recycled bags to protect them.

Bagsunlimited also sells microchamber paper, which protects against deterioration of sketch paper. As I've been reorganizing my sketch collection, I've been slipping sheets of these into the bags, especially behind those on thin yellow paper, which I understand have a higher acid content than the white paper and so are more prone to becoming brittle with age.

Also, I watch out for any sketch with any kind of adhesive tape on it, and carefully remove it with the help of a solvent. (I use eucalyptus oil, but there are others that you can get from librarians' or archivists' suppliers.) Even if it has not yellowed yet, I gather there is no such thing as a stable celotape.

To mend or keep sheets together after I remove the tape, I use fimoplast, an alkaline-buffered thin adhesive tape that is rated as permanent by archival standards. It is expensive, but as I use very thin pieces (it is very sticky) one roll will last a collector's lifetime.

Sketch sets of the same size will protect each other if bagged together, but single sketches need a piece of cardstock behind them to protect against accidental damage to the corners or edges. You can get pre-cut backing boards, or get a big pad of cardstock from a craft store and cut them to size. It is a very good idea to label sketch bags with the series, plus episode and cut numbers. (These are usually written on the top of the layout, or on the timing sheet if you get it.) Then I stack these in an acid-free archival document box that is big enough to hold the sketch set without crumpling the edge. You can get these from many art supplies sites. I used to get them from Light Impressions, but their service has deteriorated so much in the last 3 years that I can't recommend them any more.

Good luck. I've found that a little TLC on arrival will avoid many problems that might occur silently and slowly over the following years and ensure the long-term health of your collection.

[Thanatos]

Thank you for the answers.

sensei, are the cardstocks you use acid-free too ?

And when you talk about microchamber paper to protect the sketches, does it means that the bag isn't enough to protect them ?

I received my first sketches lot today. There are the dougas and the corrections in yellow paper ? Can I bag them together ?

I know that cels and dougas must be protected from the daylight, but is there the necessity to protect them too from the artificial light ?

[sensei]

The key issue is what archivists call "intrinsic vice." That doesn't mean that collecting cels and sketches is a bad habit that makes you do evil things (although many people would agree) but that the material that they are made of is not stable and tends to break down over time. The gases given out during this process can work on the material and speed up the deterioration. That's why collectors say cels in particular should be allowed to "breathe." Keeping the bags unsealed, clipping a corner, or (my practice) ripping one of the seams of the bag all the way down keeps the gases given out by the acetate's slow deterioration from building up inside the bag.

And the same is true with the paper used for sketches. Yes, the cardstock is rated acid free, but the material used by studios is usually not acid free. So it too slowly "burns" inside, turning yellowish and becoming brittle. Ironically, we select bags and backing that won't hurt our art, but in fact it is our art that is "hot" and tends to damage the archival materials we use. (Which is why cels need to be rebagged every so often.)

The microchamber paper is designed to trap and neutralize these byproducts of intrinsic vice, which in turn lengthens the life of the materials in the same bag (and also helps protect the bag). It's not very expensive and was originally developed to help people keep vintage comic books and photographs looking new. I use it extensively for sketches and have put it in with cels that I suspected were developing vinegar syndrome (an advanced stage of deterioration in which the acetate on which the cel is painted starts to turn into acetic acid or vinegar).

For professional, long-term storage, I've read that it's helpful to reduce the temperature in which they are stored. That slows down the internal chemical reactions that cause damage. I once visited a professional archive (rare books and manuscripts) that had created a refrigerator room that was kept permanently at 50 degrees Fahrenheit. I once heard of a collector who did something similar by taking an old refrigerator, setting it up to 50 degrees, and storing it in her garage. Then she kept her cels there. But for ordinary purposes, I'd say protecting animation art from extreme temperatures is the key. (That is, don't put it in an uninsulated attic or on the back seat of a car you park in the sun!)

For the other issues: Yes, I do store genga and shuusei (the yellow corrections) together, but I put a piece of cardstock between them and add a sheet or two of microchamber paper. As for artificial light, I think most collectors would agree that cels should be protected from all kinds of light, sunlight or artificial. I had a cel that faded badly in my office's fluorescent lighting, and from that point on I've protected everything. Sketches aren't as sensitive -- I've loaned some for library displays with no visible damage -- but overall shouldn't be left in bright light for long periods of time. Overall, I believe that any light will serve as a catalyst to speed up the internal reactions that cause damage.

The good news is that I've had some of my art for going on 12 years now and have not seen any visible signs of damage (some was badly faded when I got it) since I scanned it the first time. So a little care at the outset (which you're obviously motivated to take) will avoid most of the common problems of long-term storage.

[Thanatos]

Well, thanks a lot again. These are nice advices, specially the suggestion to use cardstock with the dougas/sketches. The only problem is when a background comes with the cel...
Anyway, I think I'll do that .

[Thanatos]

Well, I think I will buy Itoyas on Dick Blick (even if it will cost me 30$ in shipping, urgl ). Tough I have a last question (for the Itoya specialists ).

For what I see, there are many sorts of Itoyas: Itoya profolio advantages, Itoya profolio expos, professional presentation books...
In the differences between them, there is the number of sheets and the cover. But what are the other differences ? Are they all totally acid-free, and adapted for cels conservation ?

Thanks in advance again.