I'm trying to make gifs out of some dougas and would like to follow the original animation speed but can't seem to figure out how its supposed to be read. perhaps a fellow member could break the letters and numbers down to something my intelligence can handle
Thanks in advance for any help.
...and a bonus question, on rubberslug page, how do you move a title section that includes a number down to where you want it? for some reason "section 10" is automatically above "2" but below "1"...
OK, the first trick is that each bold horizontal line (numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.) marks one second. The rows inside these divide the seconds into 24 divisions. You can see these numbered 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. at the right edge of the far-left column. Each timing sheet page covers six seconds, which is equal to 144 twenty-fourths of a second.
I've seen some timing sheets that do animate 24 to a second (CCS for example) but in fact 8 to a second is more common, and 12 to a second for a quicker pace. When the douga numbers come every 3 rows, they're animated 8/sec, and when they come every 2 rows, they're animated 12/sec.
The second trick is that the set of columns to the far left gives the genga (key) numbers, with rough checks to indicate where inbetweeners should come in. The middle set of columns (the ones that are noticeably wider) gives the final douga numbers. (The far right column indicates any special effects used during the cut.)
From what I can see in your scan, the cut begins with an A1/B1 combination that doesn't change for the first two-and-a-half seconds (down to row 61 in the first column). Then the B layer disappears ("X" in this column) and the A level starts to move briskly, animated 12 to a second (every 2 rows) from A2 on to the bottom of the column and into the .
You scanned only the left edge of the second column, so I can't read the douga numbers. But I can make out that the animation continues at the same pace from row 61 to row 99 (genga number A5, just past the 4 second mark). Then the speed starts to slow: the next image comes in 3 rows down (or 8 to a second), then the speed returns to 2 rows at a time (12/sec) from 102 to 112, and then the pace becomes consistently 8 to a second down to row 133 (five and a half seconds), at which point the A layer stands still again.
The A layer is stationary to the end of the first page (six second mark), and then, at the top of p. 2, it starts to move again. I can make out that the douga sequence number here is A35, and the animation continues at the slower 8/sec. pace for the last second of the cut, ending at A42, the one second mark on the second page, seven seconds total. in the far right column, I also see that there is some kind of dissolve from one background to another that takes place during this last second, indicated by the diverging lines.
So what I make of this is that you have a character that stands stock still for two and a half seconds -- a long time as animation goes -- then suddenly bursts into violent action, which then slows down and stops again after three seconds. Then a half second pause, and one more second of steady paced action.
As for the RS auto-alphabetizing, it always assumes that the first number is what it should use in ordering items. So a number starting 1 will always get put before an number starting 2, even if the first number is 1,072,651 and the second number is 2. If you change 1 to 01, 2 to 02, etc., then the ordering will come right.
Last edited by sensei on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
The 8 frames to a second is pretty normal Japanese/asian animation. North America exposes on 12 frames per second. Not a steadfast rule for both origins, but usually good rule of thumb. And it actually doesn't create a quicker pace. You could animate 10 seconds with 8 frames to a second ("On threes") or 12 to a second ("on twos") and get what appears to be the exact same ten seconds of animation - it's just the smoothness of the motion is a bit more refined on the 12 per second. The inbetweens you use to get between the keys would be in slightly different positions for the 8fps - but when you run the two, they would appear to move virtually identical because of how the brain processes a sequence of moving images *insert science here*. CG animation (Maya) is animated on "ones" (24 frames in a second). Very smooth.
You scanned only the left edge of the second column, so I can't read the douga numbers. But I can make out that the animation continues at the same pace from row 61 to row 99 (genga number A5, just past the 4 second mark). Then the speed starts to slow: the next image comes in 3 rows down (or 8 to a second), then the speed returns to 2 rows at a time (12/sec) from 102 to 112, and then the pace becomes consistently 8 to a second down to row 133 (five and a half seconds), at which point the A layer stands still again.
I don't think the image was showing up for Sensei properly. Boo. There's a C layer that kicks in at 95. C1 & 2 are held for 2 frames each, C3 is held for 3 frames, 4-6 are held for 2 frames, then 7 gets one frame at 108 and is gone for 109.
BONUS! There is a column that reads キャメラ (Camera). This is your camera move box... but the camera isn't actually moving, your cel/sketch layers are physically moving left and right. I can't read all the printing clearly, but from what I make out (you'll have fun with this) there's a opposing actions on your A & B levels to open that 3 seconds (one cel layer moves one way, while the other cel layer moves the other - the key word you're seeing on the sheet here for this is スライド). A is pulling to the right and B is pulling to the left - see the arrows next to Aセル --> and Bセル <-- (I would assume, given this, that B is probably pulling off screen left since the layer itself ends (the X at frame 61 - notice the arrow in the キャメラ column stops at the line above 61 and there's a B circled). The A layer continues to slide to the right until it stops at frame 66 and continues it's action at that position. I don't see any indication for a plotted path for start and stop positions on those travel paths on either A or B though (it gets plotted on the layouts... but I can't find corresponding information on this exposure sheet. D: sorry!)
You have a neat exposure sheet :3 good luck shooting!
Yuuki wrote:The 8 frames to a second is pretty normal Japanese/asian animation. And it actually doesn't create a quicker pace. You could animate 10 seconds with 8 frames to a second ("On threes") or 12 to a second ("on twos") and get what appears to be the exact same ten seconds of animation - it's just the smoothness of the motion is a bit more refined on the 12 per second.
Thanks, Yuuki. I figured out the problem: since the screen I view AB in is narrow, my browser automatically cropped the scan. Once I corrected this, I could see the whole thing. Thanks for spotting that C layer which I missed altogether.
What Yuuki says is correct in theory. Most Japanese timing sheets do show 8/sec animation for most situations, and animating them at a higher speed would not necessarily speed up the action in these cuts, though it would make them view more smoothly.
But in practice I tend to see a shift to 12/sec or 24/sec when there is rapid motion of some kind. Animating at the higher speeds all around would be smoother, but would also mean 50-100% more dougas, and studios, from what can see, preferred the more economical "good enough" rate unless the action in the cut absolutely required the higher animation speed.
It also allowed for little tweaks in the middle of actions, in which a new image comes in just a skosh quicker or slower, which I've learned to watch for and appreciate in trying to recreate animations from timing sheets.
Big Thanks to both sensei and Yuuki for the extremely informative replies! I'll definitely have some fun making up gifs with the dozen of sheets I have
another question I have is for fellow Jasc animation shop 3 user, does anyone know what speed should I input for each layer of genga? I think they go by 5 in 1/100th or 1/20th of a second in increase. and also, is there a way to make out the effect mentioned by Yuuki, with A1 layer pulling right as B1 being pulled to the left?
Jasc uses hundredths of seconds in their timing. You can change this by ones. (At least the version I have.) Since 1/8 (0.125) and 1/12 (0.083) don't convert exactly to hundredths, I just use twelve hundredths for 8-to-a-second and eight hundredths for 12-to-a second. It's not exact, but it's easy to remember!
For the slide effect you might try combining the dougas digitally and "cheating" the pastes over a little during each of these frames. That is, moving the A image over to the right a little each time and pasting the B layer a little bit farther to the left (or vice versa).
Good luck! I'll watch for the final result. Even a basic reanimation always reveals some detail you couldn't have noticed from the sketches alone.
Edit: Heh. got the fractions exactly reversed. Gomen for the confusion.
Last edited by sensei on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
it looks like 1/100 sec is the increase here. I misread the default of 5/100 as the only increase option. I might try out the cheat you suggested. unfortunately the only cheats I'm good at is career related, so something like this might get on my nerves before I can produce any decent results lol
I'll be sure to make out all gif worthy ones little by little and update them, but it'll take sometime for sure since I'll be really busy for awhile-_-
I'm also trying to read a time sheet and while I can make bits and pieces of it due to the earlier posts, I'm still have difficulties.
What unit is the time in? Like seconds? Also does cut just mean that is the 323rd cut in the episode? Also below it, I can figure out that it's trying to depict the animation for the pan shot but I can't make out much more than that. Thanks.
The time units are "seconds" + "1/24ths of seconds." So your cut is five and eighteen-twentyfourths (or more simply three-fourths) seconds long.
Yes, it's cut 323 of episode 26, from what I can see. That would be close to the end credits, as most episodes run 300-325 cuts.
From what I can tell, the cel or CGI key image never changes, but there is quite a lot of action on the camera front, which looks like a top layer of something like clouds that cross over the image very quickly (24/second). And while the slow pan is going on, there are images that flit "in" and "out." Maybe someone who can read cursive hiragana can make something out of the complicated camera directions at the top.
