How to tell the difference between Hanken and Hanken Repro?

[theultimatebrucelee]

Topic. I've seen some cels listed on Yahoo Japan as Hanken Reproduction cel, but really can't tell the difference between those and the one of a kind Hanken cels, anyone got any idea?

Thanks!

Edit: So a few characteristics when I compared the two types, it looks like HR are sometimes framed, and numbered on corner of the cel.(i.e. 31/200). Not sure if they apply to all, and if the # is erasable.

Heres a framed one I saw: http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f91086756
Here is one that doesn't give out much info and doesn't seem to have the traits mentioned above but still listed as HR: http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/a ... n127086312

[graymouser]

I don't collect a lot of reproduction cels. I think they mean that it is a copy of a hanken mono cel instead of a production cel. I know that the FY image was used for a box cover (VHS maybe?). I assume that they are marked the same way as other reproduction cels.

I did buy one not too long ago. It is still at the deputy, but when it arrives I can let you know about its quality and markings. It is also from FY, and I assume it was made by the same company that made the FY you linked too.

[theultimatebrucelee]

Thanks gramouser! I'd appreciate it if you could share some info on this category when possible.

[graymouser]

Well it took a while but I finally have the cel in hand.

I have to admit that I am pleasantly surprised at its quality. It is all on one acetate sheet, but the amount of detail is amazing. The lines are hand inked/painted in a variety of colors. The background, matt and frame matched the cel's colors very nicely. I don't have a lot of post-production cels to compare it to but I can try. I own a Cybercene cel from VHD, and this is pretty much blows that out of the water. Its quality/detail is as good as (if not better) than all but a couple of my rilezu.

However, I was a little disappointed with the frame job. They did such beautiful work with the cel itself and then they risked ruining it with the manner in which it was framed. There was no spacers between the cardboard backing, background paper, matt and the cel. Everything was in direct contact with each other. The cel had already started to stick lightly to the paper background. Fortunately, it was easy to separate them without damage, but I hate to think what would have happened if they had stayed in contact longer. I can only hope that cardboard was acid-free (I can't tell just by looking at it).

I will have to get it framed properly. I will hang on to all the pieces in case I ever want to sell in the future, and someone wants all the original parts.

[theultimatebrucelee]

Thanks for the followup Graymouser! It sounds like you're quite pleased with your purchase, which is awesome!

From your post it sounds like the quality of them would match that of one of a kind Hanken, and I was wondering if you were able to observe a few traits that could be used to tell them apart, such as production# and such.

[graymouser]

Mine is not numbered. It did come with a small card saying it was a limited edition. That would suggest that there are several copies of the same image floating around. Unfortunately, the card is pretty small so it would be easy to "lose" since it is not attached to anything. The frame can be another clue, since none of my other hankens have come framed. Of course, this would be pretty easy to get around it someone was trying to pass it off as the real thing.

It did not come with any sketches, but most of my hankens didn't either.

One possibility may be to consider the background. Most of my hankens did not come with backgrounds, but the ones that did were made of heavy stock paper similar to what is used in production cels. The repro background paper is very pretty and detailed, but it is also pretty flimsy. It does not seem to be any thicker than normal writing paper.

Another difference would be that the repo is only one layer even though the image is pretty complex. I have several hankens that are only one layer, but the more complicated images have multiple layers. For example, I have a couple that have the characters on one layer and the airbrushing (shadows and glowing effects) on a second layer. I have another that is a book cel with a foreground and background. Finally, I have one with the characters on one layer and some large red Japanese writing for a second top layer. I'm not sure if you could use this as a reliable way to separate them out, but maybe it can help.

This last part is speculation since I do not have the laser disc box the hanken was used for. In the image Nuriko is wearing an outfit with see-through sleeves. This is depicted using different paint colors in the repro. I do not have any hankens that depict transparent sections, but I do have a few production cels and rilezu that do. Instead of different colored paint on the same layer, they all use a separate layer with either airbrushing or solid paint (and then double expose the image). I am assuming that the reason the people who made the repro did not use a second layer but opted for just a color change was to save on costs. I doubt that whoever made the original hanken would opt for the cheaper and less effective method to create the gauze sleeve effect.

This is the repro from my gallery so you can see the sleeve close up. It is especially obvious where it overlaps the yellow on Hotohori's outfit.
http://itamejihada.net/cels/o-pp/o-pp1f.html

This is a page from my gallery showing a production cel with a see-through veil that uses double exposure for the transparency effect.
http://itamejihada.net/terminology/artw ... ffect.html

This is a page from my gallery showing a rilezu butterfly with see-through wings using airbrushing for the transparency effect. It is a little harder to see the effect because of the dark colors used, but if you look closely, you can see through the blue of the wings to see the pink flower underneath. In the actual cel, you can see through the green and brown as well. It just didn't scan well.
http://itamejihada.net/cels/loveless/loveless1f.html

[theultimatebrucelee]

Great, thanks graymouser! This cel is quite nice looking, would you say this went through a higher quality production compared to the actual production cels of the series?

It sounds like it'd be kinda hard to tell between the two types without some serious scrutinizing, if the seller choose not to be honest. But you've provided some great details in which attention should be paid trying to tell them apart. Was thinking about a couple of hankens myself, so this is very helpful info. Really like your Queen Tahomine cel btw, quite stunning and awesome impression

[sensei]

This is a page from my gallery showing a production cel with a see-through veil that uses double exposure for the transparency effect.

Ahhh! Thanks for the information! I have a couple of production cels that clearly were meant to use this strategy. In one case, the top layer was solid in cel layers and also in the final filmed scene. But it intrigued me that the studio spent so much time designing and having the character (and his complex costume) painted if it was not going to be visible, as least vaguely. In the other, the cel layer I got was solid, but I could see from the screen cap that it was translucent in the filmed scene. This gives me a good idea of how the camera crew achieved this effect.

Graymouser explains it all once again!

Oh, and a gorgeous piece of FY art! Congratulations on a primo addition to your collection.

[graymouser]

This cel is quite nice looking, would you say this went through a higher quality production compared to the actual production cels of the series?

Yes, definitely. The lines are hand-inked instead of photocopied. They also used a variety of colors for the lines. There are not a lot of production cels that have hand-painted lines. That's a lot of work and expense. It would play havoc with production schedules and budgets. My only production cels with hand-painted lines come from The Last Unicorn (due to age - preceded widespread use of photocopiers) and some random pan cels from VHD: Bloodlust. Both of these are movies and not TV shows. The need for more detail for large movie screens and a more flexible filming schedule probably increased the production quality. The image itself is much more detailed than any of the FY production TV and OVA cels I own. Just trying to reproduce all the colors and details of a hanken forced them to put a lot more work into painting it.

I am sure not all limited edition/reproduction cels have the same quality. The Cybercene promotion cel I own is mass produced and pretty poor quality. I do not own enough repros to have a good feel for them overall. I have seen hanken reproduction Slayers cels, but I have no idea of their quality. Maybe another beta member can chime in with some information on them.

Anyways, it is going to be pretty hard to separate a high quality hanken repro and a hanken without seeing it in person or relying on an honest online seller. Maybe a list of known hanken repros would be helpful. Off the top of my head, the only shows I can think of that have hanken repros are Slayers, Fushigi Yuugi, and Ayashi no Ceres. I am probably missing some so maybe other people can add to the list.

[theultimatebrucelee]

I definitely agree that a list of titles would help in clearing things up. Unfortunately I haven't paid very much attention on this matter in the past. But aside from the three titles you've mentioned, the 2nd link on my first post is a Haken repro cel from the World of Narue, according to the auctions title. I've also seem HR cels from You're Under Arrest in the past.

While googling around for answer I came across a post addressing the same concern from 15 years ago on animanga, mentioning that aside from honesty of the seller, usually if the price is too good to be true then its likely a hanken repro.

http://www.animanga.com/cels/book/archive1/p1226.html