Confused about what's going on in this scene?

For the n00bs of cel collecting and production art . . . and for some of us old-timers, too. Post your questions on anything that puzzles you.
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Ichigos
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Confused about what's going on in this scene?

Post by Ichigos »

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I'm a little confused about what the difference between these images are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2GDC8GLcA This scene on YouTube starts at 11:17

The two images on the right (above and below each other) are the same thing I just included a full picture because my scanner didn't catch the full picture.

The one on the left is labelled B-5 and I think the page on the right is B-9??

There's another image I've attached but it says that B-6 is the end. So what is the deal with that B-9 page? Is it actually a 9?
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Jadeduo
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Re: Confused about what's going on in this scene?

Post by Jadeduo »

The best way to clear this up for yourself is to open them in order in an image viewer really quickly so you can animate it briefly it will give you a better idea what is happening here. From the looks of it there is a pan in and out so I would assume the cels are most likely oversized if you can find them. However, I would definitely suggest pulling all three up in sequence order and skip through them real fast it will give you a better idea of what is going on.

Some scenes have insanely minute movements and sometimes I can't believe they just don't skip a few in between cels. However I can't complain too much that means there is more for us to collect!

JD
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Rekka Alexiel
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Re: Confused about what's going on in this scene?

Post by Rekka Alexiel »

Well, the one's labeled as B-5 and B-6 END are Genga. You can see the "timeline" between B-5 to B-9 written on the B-5 Genga. The B-9 one is a Douga. The seen seems to be a really quick one, so even though the B-5 Genga and B-9 Douga look identical, they may be a tiny bit different. Have you tried holding them both up to a window and see if they match perfectly?

I'm sure sensei could offer some more input with this. <3
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Re: Confused about what's going on in this scene?

Post by sensei »

Rekka is right: the B5 and B6 END sketches are gengas or keyframes. That means they were drawn by the key animator assigned to that particular cut or scene at an earlier stage of the animation process. The easiest way to tell the difference is the placement of the sequence number. In gengas, it's normally written beside the character, on the left side in your examples. In dougas, it's always put in the upper right corner (bottom right for some oversized dougas).

In Japanese animation, the gengas are drafted by the key animator and approved by the episode animation director, then they are sent to another department, where junior animators do the clean-up and in-betweener sketches that are actually made into the animated image used in the final show. These are the dougas. The clean-ups are simply traced from the gengas or keyframe drawings. So, yes, your B9 douga is identical to your B4 genga. (Except it is free from all the notations in the genga, except the little "x" that means "leave this part blank.") That's because it's going to be photocopied on the back of the cel, producing the trace lines that will later guide the cel painter.

If you look at your B5 sketch, above the number there's a line with a series of shorter lines across it. One end is labeled "4" and the other "5." There are four little lines between: that's the number of in-betweeners the key animator wants between the douga that's traced from the B4 genga and the one traced from the B5. Their job is to keep the action looking smooth from one keyframe to the next. Notice how the lines bunch up over on the "5" side. That signals the velocity of the action: it should start out fast, then slow almost to a stop. It looks to me as if the character is about to slug somebody, then something happens, and he stops and his eyes open in surprise (B6 END).

When the inbetweers are added, the sketches are renumbered to include them, but to keep their relationship straight, the ones traced from the genga always have circled registration numbers. (That's why "B9" is circled on your douga.) If there were four inbetweeners between the douga that was traced from the B4 genga, then that would explain why your genga is numbered B5 and the douga is numbered B9.

The timing sheet, if you had it, would show you more clearly just what is going on here. That would have the gengas numbered in one column and the dougas numbered in another one right beside it (with the keyframe numbers circled in both for reference).
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