Anime-Beta TNG

So, first off, hi-diddly-ho! I'm new here, it's real nice to meetcha! I look forward to hanging around here.

I have a few questions actually, I'm totally new to this sort of thing.
I haven't started collecting cels, yet, but I did order a cel w/douga and a genga for my friends recently as birthday presents.
I did so, of course, before doing much research on cel collecting. Typical! I have done some research now, reading around this forum mostly, and I'm a bit worried.
I'm anxious that I've essentially just purchased my friends some unannounced pets, as in, more a burden than a gift! I had no idea storage for cels and the like was so finicky and labor intensive.
I didn't get them frames or storage of any kind really haha, oh well. They were pretty cheap, at least, if they are destroyed somehow.
So I suppose my first question is: what good storage rules of thumb can I pass on to them so that they can take care of them as best as they can without any special storage options available?
If there is any knowledge to that effect, anyway.

My second question is kind of similar, but it's about me wanting to collect.
I'm interested in cel collecting, though I'm not particularly interested in collecting lots of cels or really expensive ones.
I'm disabled (in a bunch of ways) and as a result I have pretty severe chronic fatigue. I don't know that I could totally keep up with the special care regimens that you folks have been talking about. Maybe I can, I could certainly frame them, that seems the lowest energy option.
Anyway, I suppose the question in all this is, as a disabled person with not a lot of energy, what can I get away with?
How regimented do I have to be in storing and caring for them at minimum?

If I store cels in an itoyo binder can I keep it in a regular bookshelf?

Do I have to use microchamber sheets and if I do is it possible to easily remove them to look at the cel?

How carefully do I have to store/handle Genga and Douga sans cel?

Stuff like that.

I'm sure I have a million more questions that I'm not thinking of right now, but there's time.
Thank you in advance! I would really appreciate any help you can offer, and I apologize if some of these questions have been asked a lot before. I went a few pages back in the board looking at posts about relevant topics and I thought it would still be a good idea to start my own given my kind of unique situation.

<3<3<3

A newbie! A newbie! Open the banana closet!


First of all, I don't think that you need to feel guilty about giving cels or gengas as gifts, particularly if they are inexpensive and intended for enjoyment. Most of the "archival" discussion here concerns people who have purchased high-end items that (likely) are of historical importance. (Or maybe people will decide that anime was fun but of no particular cultural significance and all of our pretties will be consigned to the landfill.) So there are those of us who are concerned about the task of keeping cels in good condition for decades, in the same way as someone who obtains a fine art object feels obligated to keep it in prime condition for the duration, as it is a unique work by a major artist.

However, I don't see a trend toward cels becoming more collectable or appreciating in value, so you could reasonably see some of this as OCDish in emphasis. A pretty but not-very-valuable cel will stay pretty for years if it's treated with reasonable care, and gengas and dougas are even more stable. The only potential problem is that cels have a bad habit of hacking into computers and bidding on other cels from the same series while you are asleep. (Tenshi ni Narumon cels are the worst at this habit, a number of collectors have found.) And so a small collection tends to become bigger, and then routine maintenance jobs become exponentially more demanding. If you can keep your collection to a single book, then I don't see that the job is a difficult or expensive one.

The larger issue with cels is that, being made of cellulose acetate, they are chemically unstable, tending to break down into acetic acid, eventually leading to what is called "vinegar syndrome." This doesn't happen very quickly, though. I've seen the start of this in only about eight of my cels, all older ones made in the 1970s and 1980s. It is a concern, however, and so that is why the gold standard is to keep cels away from unnecessary light, let them air fumes and include a piece of microchamber paper in the bag with the cel when it is not being viewed. I slit the bag used for storage down two sides so fumes can exit easily, and I change bags every two years or so. (You can tell when to do this, as the fumes damage the bag, making it pucker up. I have also seen this puckering on the plastic pages of Itoya Profolios too.)

I place the microchamber paper behind the cel, which seem to be the most chemically active side (judging from bag deterioration).
Yes, that can detract from viewing and appreciating the cel, but it will slow down the early signs of deterioration (notably fading of trace lines and buckling of the sheet, especially under heavy layers of cel paint.) I have known microchamber paper to stick to cel paint, and so I include an extra (single) sheet of plastic in the bag between the MC paper and the paint. That will allow you to remove the paper easily when you want to show off your cels or gloat over them.

So for a small collection, this "gold standard" doesn't have to be overly work intensive. Yes, store the Profolio upright rather than flat, and flip through it occasionally to check on condition and gloat. That will keep fumes from building up. There are much more work-intensive modes of storage (I dream of having a house with a "cold room" maintained at 50 degrees) but these are museum options for super-high-end items (such as the Disney Studio archive). But allowing cels to vent fumes freely, including a sheet of MC paper in the bag, and checking them frequently is enough to keep them healthy for years.

Paper sketches are far simpler to store. First, store them separately from the cel, rather than tucking them behind it in the storage space, which is what collectors used to do. Cut a backing board (I get scrapbooking cardstock when it goes on sale at Michael's) slightly bigger than the sketch, put a sheet of microchamber paper between it and the sketch, and seal it securely in a bag. Sketches, unlike cels, do not produce large amounts of fumes, so they can be sealed tightly and stored in a box.

When storing a large sketch set from a CGI series with multiple keyframes, correction sketches, and dougas, I separate the ones on colored paper from the ones on white paper (word has it that the colored ones are more acidic in content and deteriorate more quickly), put them on one side of the backing board and the white ones on the other side. One sheet of MC paper to five sketches is probably sufficient.

One caution: remove any clear celotape on sketches, as most varieties have a high-acid adhesive that will leave a nasty brown burn on the paper if left on it. There are a number of solvents that will soften this adhesive and then evaporate without damaging the paper. I use eucalyptus oil, which can be gotten in big jugs from health food sources. (Caution: it's poisonous to children and pets and also flammable.) Goo-gone is also said to work and can be found in various dollar stores.

That's enough advice for one message, and I hope it gives you some perspective. In general, the enjoyment we get from having cels makes up for any trouble their maintenance causes. (Changing bags is, for me, a chance to really appreciate certain items up close, and so it is a joyous event rather than troublesome labor.)

I'll let others chime in on framing, which is a controversial issue, some people avoiding it (because of the light issue) and others finding long-term strategies for putting them on display. For now, welcome to Beta and feel free to ask questions. (And freer to consider all sides before taking any single member's answer as gospel, especially mine.)

Sensei is the preservation authority around here. A couple notes to add to his excellent advice:

- If it wasn't completely clear from Sensei's description, NEVER use eucalyptus oil on cels. It literally melts plastic and will destroy cels.
- I use poly bags for cels, mylar for sketches. Poly bags aren't as durable but they won't stick as easily to cel paint. That said, there is some evidence to show that the static created by mylar can 'lift' loose pencil, pastel, (any 'dry' art material) off of paper over time. I still use it, but keep that in mind.
- I put sketches in mylar sleeves and then stack them in boxes (that are themselves made from MC material: http://lodima.org/archival-materials/archival-boxes/ (ArtCare = Micro Chamber material)

For most people, a few Itoya binders, poly bags, and MC paper is enough. But it all depends on how much you want to spend on your collection and how much you want to spend on preserving it.

If you happen to have any other questions and would like to ask them in a chat, some of us hang out in a Slack chat (link in my signature). Welcome to the obsession that is animation art collecting!

Thank you so so so much for the info! Very gracious of you Sensei to write such a detailed and comprehensive post to help little old me as well. It helped plenty and it assuaged my anxiety to a degree. Not having collected before and seeing all the preservation info it gave me the impression that cels would fall apart if I looked at them funny.
Thankfully for me and my energy, like I said, I don't plan on collecting a ton (although, if I get a taste for it that may change) and thankfully most of what I'm interested is older, and generally not very big ticket.

I guess while I'm here I might as well ask what size/type of Itoya binders, bags, and Microchamber sheets I should go for.

Thanks again for all the info I really really appreciate. Anime cels have always fascinated me so it's something I'm excited to dip my toes in a little bit and I'm thankful that if I manage to be discerning and reserved it shouldn't be too much of an undertaking on my part.

(Although I suppose me being interested in older stuff does make careful preservation more of a focus, but that's fine. You've taken my anxiety down many notches)

You're welcome, Pwnix. We can use new hands, and it's nice to have someone to share with.

As for details, I can say that most of my Itoyas are 11x14 with a few 11x17 for oversized cels. The kind that have ring binders and removable pages are gaining favor as they make rearranging collections simpler, though.

Bags: I use polypro, 10 7/8 by 14 1/4 x 1.5 mil. They are sold by Bags Unlimited as "Large Life Magazine Bags." They're just big enough for most standard cels to fit in by their wide side, and also big enough for nearly all oversized cels and backgrounds, fitting in by their narrow side. Bags Unlimited has lots of sizes, and if your cels are non-standard (as many older series cels are), then you can browse around and find a good size. I also get my boxes from them ("Small" or "Large sheet music").

Microchamber paper: I also get from Bags Unlimited, and I buy the 11x16 size and then cut it down in my paper cutter so that I get 2x to 4x the sheets I order. Generally a quarter sheet (5.5 x 4") is enough for a healthy cel, though for older ones I go with a half sheet: 10.5 x 8. Sketches generally get that size too.

Other collectors have their preferences, which you should listen to and decide what works for you.

Earl, you'll be interested to know that, wondering just what impact eucalyptus oil would have on cels, I once took an unwanted "extra" and subjected it to "The Treatment." Nothing happened. The solvent did not affect the plastic or the cel paint. On the minus side, I could never think of any practical reason to put eucalyptus oil on cels in the first place. The cel probably damages celotape more than vice versa, and I doubt it would help separate layers. So while I'd still keep it locked up (because it smells nice and probably would attract kids and dogs with death wishes) one shouldn't feel having a jug around is risky to your cels. (Isopropyl alcohol will remove most cel paint and pen marker notes such as sequence numbers, but also does not affect the plastic.)

Interesting. I once put a bit of the oil in a plastic cup and it melted the bottom right off of it. (That's what I was basing my statement on.) The composition of the cels must not be reactive with it. That said, I still wouldn't trust it after seeing what it did to that cup!

Thanks so much again! Now I have a page with relevant info I can easily check back in on. You've all been super chill and nice and helpful. I appreciate it very much.
I've been making myself at home annoying people in the slack chat with my questions and incessant chattering. haha

Anyway, this has been super helpful and I think I'll buy some cel supplies and maybe some cels over the next few months. Very excited.

earl wrote:Interesting. I once put a bit of the oil in a plastic cup and it melted the bottom right off of it. (That's what I was basing my statement on.) The composition of the cels must not be reactive with it. That said, I still wouldn't trust it after seeing what it did to that cup!

I'd agree: and I had something similar happen when I left the cap to a small bottle of the oil on some kind of plastic plate. When I picked the cap up, it had melted a ring into the plate. It's possible that if I'd let the oil set on the surface in a big drip, it would eventually eat into it. But it's not the notorious "dip" that Disney used to use to clean paint off cels so the plastic sheets could be recycled.

sensei wrote: I place the microchamber paper behind the cel, which seem to be the most chemically active side (judging from bag deterioration).
Yes, that can detract from viewing and appreciating the cel, but it will slow down the early signs of deterioration (notably fading of trace lines and buckling of the sheet, especially under heavy layers of cel paint.) I have known microchamber paper to stick to cel paint, and so I include an extra (single) sheet of plastic in the bag between the MC paper and the paint. That will allow you to remove the paper easily when you want to show off your cels or gloat over them.

So you do think this would be a bit more effective than placing the MC paper in front of the cel and completely blocking the image? I hadn't thought of doing what you do here, but I would like that more than having the paper in front. My cel bags do get wrinkly even with the MC paper in them.

I think so, but none of this is advanced science. My recollection is that the Disney Archive's research on the chemical reaction(s) responsible has found too many variables in the chemical contents of cel stock and cel paint to be able to focus on a common understanding of what is going on. Obviously the overall driver is the intrinsic instability of celluloid compounds, which has been known for decades. (Even "Safety film," or celluloid acetate, is now known to be unstable, though it is clearly more stable than celluloid nitrate, which it replaced.) And obviously the byproducts of this reaction are damaging to polypro and polyethylene, leading to the pucker we all see in time. And Microchamber paper is designed to soak up some of these fumes and keep them from damaging the bag/cel.

But the danged practical questions -- where do you put the paper etc. -- are what archivists are still experimenting with.

I do see slower and less puckering when I slit two sides of the bag and most when I find a bag that for some reason was not slit but only clipped on a corner (the old standard when I started collecting) providing less room for fumes to vent. I also see slower (but not zero) puckering with a MC paper added, and I think it's less when I put it on the back. That makes sense to me, because the back is where I ordinarily see the majority of puckering taking place. (Chemical interaction with the paint? Or just the paint holding back fumes from the plastic sheet, causing a more active chemical reaction there? I don't know.)

That's why collectors who are actively trying out new methods of conservation need to keep reporting results, because in the long run that will begin to settle down some of these areas of uncertainty.

Meantime, I can report that most of my cels are carrying on in good health, though regular direct observation is a must. Yes, that means pulling out the cel from the Itoya and looking at it front and back, sniffing, and feeling for odd texture (through the bag -- a patch of stiffness is a sign of trouble).