Shikishi Storage

For the n00bs of cel collecting and production art . . . and for some of us old-timers, too. Post your questions on anything that puzzles you.
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Jarmel
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Shikishi Storage

Post by Jarmel »

So I got some new shikishi that I want to store to the best of my ability (no cold rooms yet) and I just got some poly bags and microchamber paper. I hadn't used microchamber paper before when storing my shikishi but I saw that somebody had recommended it so I threw a few sheets in with each shikishi. I was wondering if I need to put paper on both sides of the shikishi or is just behind it sufficient? I'm worried about putting anything in front of the art and becoming possibly abrasive for whatever reason. The microchamber paper didn't take up all the spacing on the back of the shikishi so could the shikishi experience some warping due to not being on a completely flat surface? Also does the air naturally leave the poly bags or should I be really aggressive about getting all the air out prior to sealing the bag closed?

Should I look into backing boards too? I'm seeing reports though of some backing boards going acidic over time.
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cutiebunny
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Re: Shikishi Storage

Post by cutiebunny »

Congrats on winning the Cowboy Bebop and one of the Thunderbolt Fantasy shikishi at SakuraCon, Jarmel!

Sadly, when it comes to conservation methods, it's pretty much just a stab in the dark. There aren't any websites dedicated to conservation methods pertaining to shikishi, or at least, none that I can find.

Shikishi, by their very nature, are acidic. You never know what caliber boards were used. Did the artist use a high(er) quality board, such as a Copic board, or did they use a 150 yen Daiso board? Unless you're supplying the board, you just don't know. And even when you supply the paper, do you know what kind of markers they used? Did they use Copics or did they use acidic permanent markers?

A while ago, I sliced up some of my damaged boards to see what I was working with, and to test them (still haven't started the sunlight test). Daiso boards are really bad. Unlike the more expensive boards that have a thin recycled cloth/paper layer between the layers, the Daiso boards look like they're made of the same material used for toilet paper rolls. Unless you really don't care much about the guest (I'm this way with a lot of musical guests..), buy good boards and maybe sacrifice one to see what you're working with. If you don't like the quality, keep experimenting until you find one you like. While this won't help you much when you buy finished items, it will when you're giving boards/paper for guests to draw on at cons. Pro Tip - If multiple artists mention how much they like the paper you gave them, stay with that brand.

I put microchamber paper on both sides of the board. Any abrasiveness to the front seems negligible to me, especially as the purpose of doing this is to keep the paper from deteriorating as much as possible. I would stay away from the poly bags and get mylar bags. Air doesn't naturally leave any bag, so you can either slice up one side or allow the bag to breath by cutting off the corners. Mylar more expensive, but you don't need to switch them out. I wouldn't worry about possible warping from putting a piece of paper in the back of the board. You're probably going to keep your boards flat anyways and I doubt you'll be squishing 100+ into a small space.

I've debated buying matboard backings called Alpharag Artcare Museum boards. The tests on these seem very promising. Looks like, even buying bulk, I'm looking at a $5/mat. I'd probably have to really revamp my current storage system to care for matted images though.
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Jarmel
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Re: Shikishi Storage

Post by Jarmel »

Thanks I got fairly lucky with the silent auction. You won one too right? Yours looks outstanding.

Yea I know to avoid Daiso boards although it's somewhat hard to identify them just from looking at them unless they're packaged. I wish I was capable enough of looking at and then knowing which type of shikishi boards guests drew on for such and such auction before I actually bid. I wish conventions paid more attention to aspects like this when supplying art material to the guests. Is there any brand in particular you recommend? I've been trying to circumvent the issue by using acid-free sketch paper from notebooks but feel I should have some nice regular shikishi boards.

I bought a few of the Alpharag boards and I'll see how it goes. I'm not sure how effective the microchamber paper will be in the sense that it seems diminishing returns will kick in if I add more than one to a bag, but I might layer it so I have two in there.
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Keropi
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Re: Shikishi Storage

Post by Keropi »

I remember that they used to test paper/plastics by sticking them in an oven at low heat to simulate the aging process. The more acidic material would usually end up looking worse if you were comparing the two.

I'd be curious on how a test of them would turn out.
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cutiebunny
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Re: Shikishi Storage

Post by cutiebunny »

Jarmel wrote:Thanks I got fairly lucky with the silent auction. You won one too right? Yours looks outstanding.
Officially, no. Unofficially, YAAASS.

Until there is real incentive for a convention to invest in quality materials for the artwork that they'll sell, I don't think things will change. Look at how SakuraCon taped the back of the boards, and then ripped them off the tape once they were sold. Two of their boards had matching creases in the middle. If potential bidders had refused to purchase the items because of this damage, maybe the higher ups would have reflected on that. But as no one did, and both SakuraCon and Anime Expo are huge industry-backed conventions, there's no incentive for them to improve. If you refuse to buy, someone else will.

Not all conventions are this bad, though. Animazement was pretty responsive the year that they sold the Trigger sketches taped to the frame (2014?). They haven't taped anything since then.

So, in short, if there is an incentive for them to improve, they will.

I use shikishi from Sumitomo and the Copic brand shikishi. When buying white boarded shikishi, I look for ones that aren't bleach white. I've heard that the more bleach white the boards are, the higher the acidic content is in the paper used. I don't know if that's true, but when I sliced into the Sumitomo board, there was a material layer buffer. I have not sliced into a Copic board, but at $8/board when import fees are taken into account, I'm not sure I want to experiment on any that aren't badly damaged. They do sell Copic boards at the Copic booth at AX, but I really hate going to AX if I can avoid it. For me, it's a choice between paying $8/board or paying $260+/night for an AX hotel room.

I like the acid free pads best. I like that they take up less room than the shikishi. I'm guessing that, if I do go the Alpharag route, I'll likely have to buy all new Mylar bags to accommodate the backing's dimensions.
Keropi wrote:I remember that they used to test paper/plastics by sticking them in an oven at low heat to simulate the aging process. The more acidic material would usually end up looking worse if you were comparing the two.
They also use this procedure on counterfeit artwork. If you look around often enough on YJ, the artwork attributed to artists like Miyazaki drawn decades ago has been aged using this method.

I could try to use this method with the board slices I made...just not sure I want to burn the house down in the name of SCIENCE! :D
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cutiebunny
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Re: Shikishi Storage

Post by cutiebunny »

Apologis for the double post. Figured I'd update with some photos.

Image

The first photo is, next to the 1970s shikishi I own that arrived badly aged, the oldest shikishi in my possession. It was originally drawn in September 1995 and I purchased it in September 2009. It is one of the older shikishi in my collection. It appears to be drawn on a non-Daiso board and with Copic markers. Upon arrival, I placed it in a poly bag, and then, sometime around 2014(?), into a Mylar bag with microchamber paper. As long as it's been in my collection, it's been stored in a cool environment with minimal light exposure and inside an an acid free page in a binder.

I placed a newer, sliced section of a higher quality board (Made by Sumitomo) shikishi board next to the shikishi, and really, there's no difference in the white color of both boards. I have heard that shikishi will start to yellow first at the corners, but I did not observe that with this particular sketch. What I feel that this means is that, provided that you take proper care with the sketch, such as minimalizing its direct exposure to sunlight, and you invest in higher quality boards/art supplies, your board will last for a long time.

Image

The second photo is a sliced section of a Daiso dollar store board (left) and a higher quality Sumitomo shikishi board (right). What might be harder to see is that the board on the right has a thin layer of material underneath the white paper (it appears slightly fuzzy and grayish in color in person) while the Daiso board is just straight cardboard without any sort of buffer. The white specks on the left were residual left from when I cut the board up.

Sorry for the poor photos :hurt:
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Jarmel
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Re: Shikishi Storage

Post by Jarmel »

Thanks cutiebunny! I'm curious if the cheaper boards also warp faster or it's primarily restricted to yellowing of the paper. Have you noticed any yellowing to Daiso boards that you put in with microchamber paper? It would be interesting to have a timetable on how long Daiso boards are good for before they turn bad.

Also what size Mylar bags do you get and from where? I bought some from Bags Unlimited but they're too large.
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Re: Shikishi Storage

Post by Yu Narukami »

Are Kuretake ("High Quality Gasen") and Kyowa brand shikishi considered as shikishi of decent quality or are they no good?

https://www.j-stuff.de/Papier/Shikishis ... 270mm.html
https://www.blueheronarts.com/japanese- ... -p-62.html
cutiebunny wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:18 pm I use shikishi from Sumitomo and the Copic brand shikishi.
Is there a website that sells Sumitomo or Copic brand shikishi that ships to Europe and accepts Paypal?
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