Vinegar syndrom or paint strong smell ?

For the n00bs of cel collecting and production art . . . and for some of us old-timers, too. Post your questions on anything that puzzles you.
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Elye
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Vinegar syndrom or paint strong smell ?

Post by Elye »

Hello,
I'm not really a collector right now, but I'm a proud owner of three cels from the movie "Metropolis" by Rintaro released in 2001. I had them since February of this year and they are in very good conditions. But all of them have a weird smell and it only comes from the painted areas. I can only smell it by approaching my nose close to the cel. I don't know how to describe it...when I first received them, I described it as "fresh paint", but since I've heard of vinegar syndrome, my brain started to describe it as "vinegar !". But I doubt that this is really the first step to a vinegar syndrome because aside from the painted areas, the cel had no smell at all. And the persons around me who was more familiar with vinegar described it as old paint... Maybe I have some paranoia now.
Here they are :
- Six layers stuck together :
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And the douga :
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-A very big PAN one :
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-The last one (the douga is unstuck) :
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The plastic bag which came with this one was all wrinkled on the zones that touched the cel painted areas.

I would like to know if there are some specialist who knows what kind of paint and cels were used in animes of that era. The movie had a very big budget so quality materials should have been used.
Pixel
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Re: Vinegar syndrom or paint strong smell ?

Post by Pixel »

Hello, and welcome. Feel free to introduce yourself in the People Pages section of the forum.

I'm still a new collector myself, so I can't really say for sure what is going on.

You might try talking to these people about the materials used, and the smell.

http://www.srlabs.com/

Scroll down to the bottom of the page, their contact information is on the right side of the page. (look to the right of the little golden bear wearing overalls.)

There is also information to be had on general cel care by searching the forums here.

Those are nice cels by the way. :)
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RatherSilent
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Re: Vinegar syndrom or paint strong smell ?

Post by RatherSilent »

Based on your description, I do not believe your cels are suffering from vinegar syndrome. If your cel has started to show vinegar syndrome, the cels would smell very acidic, as in similar to having a bottle of white vinegar next to your nose type of acidic smell. But I think it's great that you are watching out for the sign of vinegar syndrome. Other sign of vinegar syndrome is cel warp or wrinkling, and the paint becomes soft / wet (as in thick sunscreen lotion texture). These symptoms occur when there is severe vinegar syndrome. To keep the cels safe, it would be good idea to allow the cel to breath (not completely sealed off), change cel bags annually, low humidity, low temperature, and maybe use microchamber papers if you are really concerned.

Happy Collecting, Sincerely, RS
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sensei
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Re: Vinegar syndrom or paint strong smell ?

Post by sensei »

Sorry to be late on this thread: I have had some academic work on my plate the last few days, both grading student work and writing my own.

I agree: what you're detecting is not vinegar syndrome. Like the 'flu, if you think you have it, you don't: the smell and appearance of the cels are unmistakably icky.

However, this kind of "old cel" smell is a sign of chemical deterioration, and it does require attention. The bag is wrinkled because the cel gives off fumes, typically around the painted areas, that is destructive to plastic. The bag, being thin, is damaged more immediately and visibly. The cel is thicker and resists the damage longer, but too is affected.

Probably the item most prone to damage is your six-layer set-up. In my experience, vinegar syndrome is most likely to occur in places where layers are stuck together and cannot air the fumes caused by the acetate. You should try to slip a bag layer between them as far as you can reach without damaging the paint, and also a piece of MicroChamber paper to sop up the fumes. The SR Labs that Pixel referenced will separate layers (for a hefty price) but I understand that in so doing they will inevitably damage the paint and use their own palette of paint colors to restore the damage.

Otherwise, it would be good for you to lay all the cels out in the open, paint side up, and allow them to air out for a minimum of 24 hours. Then store them in a way that does not shut off air circulation entirely, as in a Profolio with the cel bag slit down two sides to air fumes. A sheet of microchamber paper put in the cel bag itself will help delay deterioration. (Put it on the front of the cel or behind it with a sheet of cel bag material in front to keep it from sticking to the paint.) Inspect them frequently (once a month) and watch for trouble. A cel with vinegar syndrome will pucker up the bag in short order and also pucker up the plastic pocket of your Profolio. They will also show prominent warping: most common is what I call a "washboard" effect on the side with the registration holes: that edge will pucker up and down like an old-type washboard and no longer lie flat. Such cels need to be put into quarantine at once, as the fumes produced at this stage will contaminate other cels stored nearby.

In the "What Every Anime Art Collector Needs To Know" forum is a longer discussion of vinegar syndrome, along with one that gives links to essential guides to cel maintenance, including a report on chemical analysis of cels in the Disney Archive that might give some insight. (Short version: there are more variables than constants in the materials used for cel sheets or for paint.)

Good luck: cels if maintained carefully can last decades, and some nitrate cels from the Fantasia era are still in brilliant condition. Thanks for your concern, which bodes well for the lifespan of your items.
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