Does anyone knows where can I get this cel color chart cards?

[lansing]

I came across this Japanese artist where he was repairing cel drawing, and he was using this color card to find the right paint to use. Does anyone knows where can I get one?

https://ameblo.jp/kotorisan66/entry-12704420518.html

[oxypetalus]

As far as I know Kotori-san used to work in the industry so they have access to those items from then. They might pop up rarely on yahoo auctions though I wouldn't know what search terms to use. An American equivalent is probably the pantone color chart that is used by artists/graphic designers etc but it's rather expensive at $188 USD : https://www.pantone.com/formula-guide-coated-uncoated There seems to be a few on ebay for cheaper as well.

If you're looking into repairing cels or making fancels a tip is to mix your color and do a test patch on scrap plastic and see what color it is when it dries. Depending on the paint you use it may change to a slighter different color when dry.

[lansing]

As far as I know Kotori-san used to work in the industry so they have access to those items from then. They might pop up rarely on yahoo auctions though I wouldn't know what search terms to use. An American equivalent is probably the pantone color chart that is used by artists/graphic designers etc but it's rather expensive at $188 USD : https://www.pantone.com/formula-guide-coated-uncoated There seems to be a few on ebay for cheaper as well.

If you're looking into repairing cels or making fancels a tip is to mix your color and do a test patch on scrap plastic and see what color it is when it dries. Depending on the paint you use it may change to a slighter different color when dry.

I'm interested in the color code on those cards. Those codes are the one written on the cel drawing indicating what color to use. It's very useful, for example, to collect the visual color chart of Goku using those cards without spending a fortune collecting dragon ball cels just to sample each color.

[oxypetalus]

Oh, I see. Well I don't know if it helps but I have photos of a few Japanese cel paint charts here on the Animation Cel Wiki: https://wiki.cartoonedin.com/books/anim ... ge/diy-cel

[lansing]

I just found the right person on Twitter, he pretty much has the entire color chart collection. Right now I'm asking to see if he's willing to convert them to RGB and share it with the community. This is going to be HUGE in all aspects of cel animation like color correction, cel repairing and cel drawing.

On the side note, I just brought the Pantone Color Bridge Guide lol, it's $200 but it's worth it.

[oxypetalus]

I found this color chart on twitter: https://twitter.com/gakujira/status/856826811233091584 which is apparently based on data from this site: http://www.nekomataya.info/teck_info/ta ... Chart.html That site has RGB values if that's what you're looking for.

[lansing]

I found this color chart on twitter: https://twitter.com/gakujira/status/856826811233091584 which is apparently based on data from this site: http://www.nekomataya.info/teck_info/ta ... Chart.html That site has RGB values if that's what you're looking for.

The data on nekomataya's page is not accurate. The color were measured using a Noritsu CS-CM1000 colorimeter, not by things like the Pantone color guide. From my limited test comparing the color code to my cels, I believe the device was failing to capture pink color because all the codes showing up as pink on my cels were showing as another soft color on the chart.

[oxypetalus]

The data on nekomataya's page is not accurate. The color were measured using a Noritsu CS-CM1000 colorimeter, not by things like the Pantone color guide. From my limited test comparing the color code to my cels, I believe the device was failing to capture pink color because all the codes showing up as pink on my cels were showing as another soft color on the chart.

Ah I see. I didn't look too closely so I didn't realize. I wonder if there are also inconsistencies because there were different cel paint makers ? From research I saw Sun Color had the most colors but there was also Toei paint and studios also mixed their own paint colors too. In the US there was the Cartoon Color company but they stopped making paint a few years ago. There's probably more that I never heard of that are long gone by now too.

Also, now that I think about it a Pantone guide would be useful in making cel scans more color accurate and consistent. Don't know if I'm ready to drop almost $200 for a set though. You'd also need a proper light setup for color accurate viewing as well.

[lansing]

The data on nekomataya's page is not accurate. The color were measured using a Noritsu CS-CM1000 colorimeter, not by things like the Pantone color guide. From my limited test comparing the color code to my cels, I believe the device was failing to capture pink color because all the codes showing up as pink on my cels were showing as another soft color on the chart.

Ah I see. I didn't look too closely so I didn't realize. I wonder if there are also inconsistencies because there were different cel paint makers ? From research I saw Sun Color had the most colors but there was also Toei paint and studios also mixed their own paint colors too. In the US there was the Cartoon Color company but they stopped making paint a few years ago. There's probably more that I never heard of that are long gone by now too.

Also, now that I think about it a Pantone guide would be useful in making cel scans more color accurate and consistent. Don't know if I'm ready to drop almost $200 for a set though. You'd also need a proper light setup for color accurate viewing as well.

I brought the Pantone Color Bridge Guide and after a few days of testing, I'm going to say that the book doesn't work, because it doesn't have the exact color as the cel paint. Out of the 24 color that I had tested, only 2 actually matches. The rest of the them are either not even on the same hue or generally too bright. And unironically the two that do matches look the exact same color as the one from my calibrated scan lol. I compared the the color pairs with the photoshop eyedropper and couldn't even see a difference. So to get an accurate reading of the cel color, all I have to do is simply scan them with a calibrated scanner lol, $200 wasted.

My scanner is a Epson Perfection v600 and it was calibrated using a 288 color patches IT8 target. I just ordered a newer version with 864 patches yesterday and hopefully it will give even more accurate result.

Regarding the industry cel paint history in Japan, from what I had gathered, there was once a paint company called STAC (Saito Tele-Anima Color) with their own paint, and through the years it got faded out (maybe merged? don't know) and there's the rise of Taiyo-shikisai (Sun Color), which merged the STAC color and introduced more. And through the years, color on the chart got renamed or removed due to duplication. And I strongly believed that all the anime studios use Taiyo Color. It makes no sense to mix your own when you already have 500+ color to chose from.

As for the Toei paint, I have never seen their code numbers in any production drawing, so I think it was just for amateurs to buy in stores.

[oxypetalus]

This just popped up on YJ: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/au ... 1025249626 Starting bid is at 10,000 yen. It says "Saito Tele-Anima Color" on it but the description says they used it for making Toei Animation Cels. (edit: accidentally put too many zeroes on the auction price).

Also, sorry to hear the Pantone Color Guide didn't work. Maybe you can sell it to get some money back ? It seems to have decent resale value. Btw, I think I remember you from the other thread about calibrating your scanner. I also calibrated my scanner using the new Silverfast IT target but I still don't know how accurate it is.. my scans feels too green-ish ? and some scans where the character has vibrant green hair doesn't look very accurate. I wonder if it could be my monitor as well since it's old and doesn't have the full color display range even if it is calibrated as well.

[lansing]

This just popped up on YJ: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/au ... 1025249626 Starting bid is at 100,000 yen. It says "Saito Tele-Anima Color" on it but the description says they used it for making Toei Animation Cels.

Omg, that is exactly what I'm looking for. Bidding on it now. Yes all studios uses STAC back then, and Sun Color = STAC + some more new color.

Also, sorry to hear the Pantone Color Guide didn't work. Maybe you can sell it to get some money back ? It seems to have decent resale value.

I was thinking about keeping it originally, but after seeing that STAC card in auction now, maybe it would be a better choice to just refund it and use that money to get the STAC card.

Btw, I think I remember you from the other thread about calibrating your scanner. I also calibrated my scanner using the new Silverfast IT target but I still don't know how accurate it is.. my scans feels too green-ish ? and some scans where the character has vibrant green hair doesn't look very accurate. I wonder if it could be my monitor as well since it's old and doesn't have the full color display range even if it is calibrated as well.

You can check it with 3D LUT Creator by comparing your scanned IT target to the reference file, I think the demo version of the program would do.

First scan your IT8 target with the calibrated profile. And then load the image into the program, then go to "color chart grid tool" tab, then load in your own color chart on the right-top panel,


You can find your IT8 reference file from silverfast's website, just download the one that matches the number on your target.

After that just simply align the grid on top of the chart on the image just like in my guide. The "AvgDE76" on the top is the accuracy rating. Anything less than 3.0 is accurate.

I had checked my old IT8 model too. In Silverfast's calibration, the average deltaE is 0.6. When I check it with 3D LUT Creator, it's 0.56, which means Silverfast's number is real.

[lansing]

This just popped up on YJ: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/au ... 1025249626 Starting bid is at 10,000 yen.

I got the card omg! Thank you for the heads up, I would had never found it out myself. I was glad that there was no crazy bidders like the last time when I was bidding on a deck of Dragon Ball character sheet xerox, where the guy just chase my bid in less than 20 seconds every time I outbidded him.

Now I can sample the color chart on my own without relying on the guy on Twitter, which he didn't seems to be interested.

[lansing]

Update, I just received the color cards today. A total of 166 color and in good condition. The paint were sealed in like a photo paper, no wonder they can be kept for so long without degrade. Though 4 or 5 of them have their back sheet come off, I think I can glue them back together with a glue stick?

Unfortunately this STAC color chart wasn't used by the anime cels I have lol, the color codes did match the one in Dragon Ball. So STAC was used by Toei while the rest of the studios all uses Sun Color paint.

[oxypetalus]

Wow, that was fast! It's unfortunate it doesn't work with a bunch of your cels. Now that I think about it I don't think I own that many Toei cels myself either. Would you mind maybe scanning and then sharing them with the community ? I'm sure there's a bunch of people who would still find it very useful.

[lansing]

Would you mind maybe scanning and then sharing them with the community ? I'm sure there's a bunch of people who would still find it very useful.

I already scanned them, that's the main reason I get the chart. The thing I found is that the cel color are mostly a lot more saturated/brighter than our sRGB monitors can display, making them out of gamut. Only monitor with the 4K standard Rec2020 certified is able to show the color correctly, which doesn't exist lol. So for now, we can't really see their true color on the screen. I have scanned them at 48 bit depth with the ProPhoto RGB profile embedded for archiving purpose for the future.

To put the color in use for image or video, they'll have to be converted to sRGB, sacrificing the saturation. Currently I'm still researching for the best way for the conversion. I'll share it once I done that.