Haggling: OK or not OK?

Topics of anime/other animation art and collectibles.

Do you think haggling (negotiating a price up from a lowball offer) is acceptable?

Poll ended at Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:19 pm

Yes
26
51%
No
0
No votes
Depends
25
49%
 
Total votes: 51

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klet
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Post by klet »

My only quabble with Rilezu cels is that they seem to cost so much. I'm new at this whole thing(note the happy little newbie label :bubbles ), so I really don't see myself taking the deep plunge into highly expensive cels for at least a few years.

Anyway . . . back to the original topic, I have no problem with sellers haggling. I've responded to a few "for offers" sale, and hey, I'd rather a seller give me a counter-offer rather than just completely refuse or not respond. Even if you counter for a substantial amount more than what the buyer offered, at least the buyer now knows what the cel is worth to you. Besides, who knows, one of the other cels they were looking to buy might not have gone through, so they might have enough money lying about to make you a better offer. Come on, you guys are all cel collectors, so I'm sure a lot of you have experienced that situation :D

But I think the perfect senario, from a buyer's standpoint anyway, would be to put a starting price on all of the cels you wish to sell. I know some people might find a price list a little strange considering the fact that the cels are up "for offers," but it creates a great place to start from. Just let buyers know that the prices are negotiable. As a buyer, when I see just a bunch of cels up with no prices, I feel a little nervous making an offer, because you never know when you will offer what someone considers a "low-ball" amount. You can even put a price on your cels that is slightly higher than what you are looking for; that way, you have some wiggle room, and the buyer thinks that getting it for lower then the listed price is a great deal :hello Besides, you might come across someone willing to pay the price tag, and then you end up with more money than you were looking for. Everybody's happy. :)

Of course, that's just my two cents, and it's also just my opinion as a buyer . . . I have yet to put anything up for offers, though I am considering doing it pretty soon with some Saiyuki sketches I have.
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Post by Rekka Alexiel »

I'm all for rilezu cels from completely CG shows where even douga and genga are nearly impossible to obtain. Harukanaru is HORRIBLE to find anything from. I have yet to find REAL douga/gengas besides copies... Conte are pretty easy to find, but besides that... I already managed to snag some repros...but the selection is rather limited (only a couple shots from the opening sequence were made into repro cels). So, really my only other option of getting cels from this series is to commission a fancel, and although I love fancels, it'd be really, really nice if the official studeo could make some rilezu cels available. Maybe they think the demand isn't there to make a profit? I dunno...

......I'm getting off topic, aren't I........?
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Post by Ashura »

Rekka Alexiel wrote:I'm all for rilezu cels from completely CG shows where even douga and genga are nearly impossible to obtain. Harukanaru is HORRIBLE to find anything from. I have yet to find REAL douga/gengas besides copies... Conte are pretty easy to find, but besides that... I already managed to snag some repros...but the selection is rather limited (only a couple shots from the opening sequence were made into repro cels). So, really my only other option of getting cels from this series is to commission a fancel, and although I love fancels, it'd be really, really nice if the official studeo could make some rilezu cels available. Maybe they think the demand isn't there to make a profit? I dunno...

......I'm getting off topic, aren't I........?
Nope, you are doing fine. I like Harukanaru too, so that might make me biased :D

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Not Sir Phobos
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Post by Not Sir Phobos »

I much prefer when somebody says "My gallery is up for sale. The price is here". When I see the "up for offers" I shudder.

Or better yet "My gallery is up for sale. The prices are here. All prices negotiable" Now THAT is perfection. 8)
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Post by misa »

My problem with posting "for offers" is that we have often been ATTACKED by people (via e-mail of course ^_^;; ) if we didn't accept their offer.

Casey and I are gladly done with "taking offers" because our financial situation has righted itself (Casey graduated and has a job! yay!) but we did often have to use that in the past when we were having trouble making the bills.

Anyway, the last time we took offers we just said "offers on anything in our gallery", which is what most people do. The way I have always looked at it is that we WILL take offers on all cels, but don't expect that those offers will be accepted (either because the we don't want to part with the item, or that the offer isn't high enough).

Well, this one guy made offers on several cels (and they were reasonable offers) but I basically said that those were not cels that I was willing to part with at this time. The guy ripped me a new one basically saying that if we really needed money than we should be accepting his offer to take the cels off of our hands. He also posted several rude messages that if those cels were not for sale that I should have "NFS" under every cel that I would never consider selling. I know some people go the whole NFS route, but considering I have almost 1000 cels it would be pretty darn hard to label the ones that are NFS, and even then I _MIGHT_ sell that cel to someone who I know would keep and love the cel forever (for example, an Aoshi cel that was NFS I ended up selling to a person who had it as her #1 wishlist cel and she had made kind offers over a period of several years-- it's in good hands). The guy was rude, overbearing, and had this self-entitlement thing that I absolutely had to sell the cels to him or else I was a "liar". Wow. I'm generalizing this as one "guy" but it was actually quite a few people that acted like this.

There is one other major thing that is very frustrating for the "seller" in the "offers" method. This is the "cheapskate" offer maker. For example, there are some "cel scavengers" who are trying to get the best possible deal on a cel. They will offer $15 for a $1750 Gundam Wing Heero Opening cel or $35 for a Mirai Trunks with an original background or $25 for an Eyecatch. Now, at first blush one might think that these people are just uninformed as to the actual value of the cels. Yeah, I used to think that.

But I sent these "buyers" e-mails explaining the actual value of the cels (or at least what I purchased them for, as value does fluctuate -- but not THAT much jeebus) and never heard back. Then, next time I did an offer, the same people were back with the lowball offers. I think what's going on is that they figure if you are really, truly, desperate that you will sell the cel for any amount. Frankly, we weren't living on the streets or anything and I consider my cels an investment... I'm not going to sell my "stock" at pennies to the HUNDREDS of dollars -- that's crazy.

So, those are my seller quibbles about the "offer" method.

My quibbles as a BUYER in the offer method is when you have no freaking idea how much a cel is worth. I know a lot of buyers are hoping that you will say "I'll pay $500 for the cel you paid $50 for!" but that's just not usually going to happen. In fact, I've shyed away from most offer-takings lately because sometimes I'm so out of the loop on prices that I have _NO_ idea what to offer. I don't want to insult the person with a $15 bid for a $1750 cel and have them think I am a cel scavenger, but sometimes the item up for offers isn't something very common so it's almost impossible to get a base price point for the item. For example, I don't collect Tenchi Muyo cels-- at all. Then someone put up a harmony cel of Ryo-Ohki that I really liked because it looks like my pet rabbit, Leo. The guy was kind enough when I wrote him to give me an idea on what he wanted. Other people I've written say a curt "make an offer" without any helpful guidelines or even a nasty "DON'T ASK ME FOR A BALLPARK!"... But I TRULY don't know what to offer, so usually I just let it go. In my opinion there at least needs to be a starting point... (now, my husband, who usually runs OUR offers, disagrees with me on this so I'm probably in the minority ^^;).

Another thing I really appreciate, as a buyer, is a seller who at least gives you a chance to outbid the higest offer. It may take a little more time and effort, but the seller might get a higher price if you let people eek it up bit by bit. For example, I DO usually lowball my first offer (maybe I shouldn't admit this) on a cel that I DO know the average value for. So, say there is a Mirai Trunks cel that I want and I know it's worth about $350 -- I might start at $250. What's horribly frustrating is that you find out the cel sold for $300, and the seller NEVER contacted you to say "hey, the current high offer is $300 ... are you willing to go higher?" I really think that's only fair and in most situations I would keep bidding up until I reached my "max". I've always felt that offer periods should basically be like private auctions.

That's yet ANOTHER problem, as a buyer, with these offer periods. You have to trust that the seller is being honest about what is going on with offers. I had, at least 4 or 5 times, been making offers on cels in various offer periods. The seller told me that "oh, someone has offered $250-- will you counter?" and then I didn't counter, or I did and suddenly there was a recounter -- was I willing to go higher? 2 weeks later the item appears on e-bay with a reserve of $300.00. I think what happened in most of these situations, especially as I got a bad vibe about the mysterious "second bidder", is that the seller wanted $XXX.XX for the cel and was "faking" the other offer person and trying to get you to meet the price they had in mind. When I refused they couldn't say "OH! that person backed out! I'll take your $250.00" because they really wanted $XXX.XX for it and won't sell it for what I offered. I'd MUCH rather have the seller say "I want $XXX.XX for it -- will you buy it for that?" just makes life easier because I would have probably just paid it. I don't like being screwed with :P

Anyway @_@ sorry for the long ramble. I can't believe I wrote so much. I should really get back to work @_@

*hugs to all*
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Post by glorff »

Unfortunately "FOR OFFER" generally means that the seller thinks that they paid too much for the item to get back it at current market value, but wants to limit their loss or wait it out if they can't get it :x

I sure am glad that I have never paid too much for a cel /heh
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Post by Nathan »

Glorff:
Unfortunately "FOR OFFER" generally means that the seller thinks that they paid too much for the item to get back it at current market value, but wants to limit their loss or wait it out if they can't get it

I sure am glad that I have never paid too much for a cel
*chuckles* I agree with that or that there is a hope that something higher than they thought would be offered.

I don't mind for offers, more so for things I really really want.
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Post by Cel_F »

Rekka Alexiel wrote: *wishes for Harukanaru Rilezu cels...*
If you're taking orders, let me know. lol ^_~
Same here, please :) Would sure love to see rilezu cels available for this series as well 8)

Cheers,
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Post by midnightdance »

I guess to me, considering I have an "offers page" up, offers are my way of getting rid of stuff that I am not sure what to price it at. People might ask what I want to sell for, but I usually don't honestly know what to price it at because 1) (like someone mentioned above) I think I paid too much and cannot get the price back or 2) I would rather trade (which is the mode I am currently in)

I think we can basically sum up this thread by saying that everyone handles offers differently. I guess I have been lucky in that all the offers I have made have been polietly refused or what not. Sorry to all those that have not had the same luck :(

I think that most of the time when I get offers, I generally just say I am not interested in selling, and thank them for taking the time. If the offer is lower than I paid I just say that as well. But hey! I have accepted quite a few offers as well, and whenever I see people taking offers, I never hesitate to open the page and see what they got! The worst they can say is no, and I guess I like offers because it gives us people that always seem to miss the updates a chance to put our bid in too.

but thats just me. :D
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Post by Rekka Alexiel »

Cel_F wrote:Same here, please :) Would sure love to see rilezu cels available for this series as well 8)
Ahhh, another Haruka fan! Yay! Who's your boy? If you say Tenma... *evil glare* lol :^^:
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Post by funshine »

dislike and reasoning

as a buyer, i don't really like for offer cels... i very rarely do make an offer because i honestly don't know what to offer. even if i like the cel and even if i collect from the series, i rarely make an offer. i have made a few offers on cels, most were rejected and a few were accepted. some of my offers have been only 10-20 bucks off, some have been just right, some have been way way off. but typically i go, 'oh i'd like that cel but i don't know what to offer' and i move on to the next thing because i know some people get insulted if they consider the offer to be too low or if they 'think' you are low-balling and being rude (ie offering 20 for a cel that goes for about 600). and frankly, i don't mind politely being told i'm way off but i dont' want to seem insulting nor do i want to deal with someone who is not going to be polite about what i offer so i often just don't bother offering.

when i do make an offer, it's a serious one. i consider my current financial situation as well as what i would pay for the cel. sometimes i offer 20 bucks and the seller says , '30'. i consider, sometimes i'm willing to go a bit higher and sometimes i'm not. sometimes i offer 20 and the seller says, sorry any cel of this character goes for 100+. then i politely thank them and walk away cause the cel isn't worth that much to me.

even with series i collect, if a cel goes past what i wanted to spend at that moment in time i don't typically watch to the end so i don't know what the end price was (it could be a buck more or it could be hundreds more). plus i've seen cels from the same sequence reach very different prices. i've seen cels that i thought were worth opening bid only and i checked back to possibly place a bid only to see that the cel has increased in price 4 times. i've lost a cel by $5 bucks and have seen a cel from teh same sequence and when i go to place my bid it's already selling for $20+ my max on the previous cel. prices change very easily.

cel collecting is very subjective. each person's financial situation as well as what series the cel is from and the characters/scene in the cel all are in play.

for example, i like daa daa daa cels, but daa is not by a long shot my favorite series nor are the cels typically must have cels. daa isn't even one of my favorite series and i haven't actually seen much of it (i think i've seen 2 episodes). therefore, if i see a for offer daa cel and i like it i really don't know what to offer. i may know that i'd like that cel for $15 and i may even pay slightly more (depending on the cel, if i have money, etc). however, i don't want to be 'insulting' and offer a super low amount, but at the same time i don't know what the cel goes for and i'm not the original buyer - meaning the original buyer who is now selling may adore daa daa daa and that may be one of their most favorite series ever and the cel in question may be of their favorite character in a key scene and therefore they paid $50 for that cel. was it worth $50? sure, it was to them. it may even be what the market price of that character/etc typically is. however to me it may not even be 'worth' $25.


when i do like offer periods:

i do like for offer cels when the seller either lists a negotiable price *or* says they will tell you what they ideally want for the cel if you inquire. these are the cels i have typically offered on because i either knew about what the seller wanted or i could simply ask what the seller wanted and then i could decide if i thought the cel was worth that to me.

misc

as for being given a chance to offer higher than the high offer... well to me for offers are not auctions. if it was more of an auction, i think it would be more correct to say private auction on cels ends on such and such date. if someone knew the market value of a cel and offered a good price while someone else either fished or offered what they were willing to spend at that moment then there's no reason to be upset if the cel goes to the first person and the second isn't offered a second chance.

fortunately, i haven't run into anyone who was insulted (and then insulting) when i happened to make a low offer... but i don't typically make offers so that could be one leading reason why i've been so lucky. ^-^[/b]
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Post by Katrina »

I think what happened in most of these situations, especially as I got a bad vibe about the mysterious "second bidder", is that the seller wanted $XXX.XX for the cel and was "faking" the other offer person and trying to get you to meet the price they had in mind. When I refused they couldn't say "OH! that person backed out! I'll take your $250.00" because they really wanted $XXX.XX for it and won't sell it for what I offered.
I once had two people offer to buy the same cel at the same time, but the second person backed out, so it solved the problem pretty quickly. No need for counteroffers. :wink:

I had someone trying to get me to counteroffer on a Love Hina douga at one point in a smiliar way and I almost went for it, but then I decided to take my first offer to another gallery. My offer was accepted, and the first person still tried to get me to buy their douga, but I polietly told them I already had one and had no interest in sequence mates.
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