American Animation art-Cream of the Crop?

duotrouble · Post by **duotrouble** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:46 am

Strictly-Dragonball wrote: but god a cel from 'What's Opera Doc' anyone ever seen one? An original.

I have.

As with all cels, it really depends on the buyer as to how much something is worth. Disney, Hanna Barbera and Warner Bros all demand BIG $$$$ for their cels if you buy them from the companies themselves. However, I have found individual collectors, like ourselves, sell them for far less. Daffy Duck cels were the only cels I wanted before I got into anime cel collecting. I do own a Duck Dodgers cel but I've never displayed it. It doesn't go with my anime theme RS gallery.

I used to have a site bookmarked that sells Disney, Hanna Barbera and Warner Bros cels. Although at the moment, I can't come up with the name of it.

DragonballZSubzero · Post by **DragonballZSubzero** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:32 am

I have enjoyed reading everyone's take on this topic and glad it was brought up.

My mom has been collecting Disney, WB, and Hanna Barbera cels since before I was born. We have dozens framed all around my parent's house. Chuck Jones was a favorite of hers. Most of them are signed and range from the 1950s - 1980s. She also has several Dr. Seuss pieces; Grinch, Cat in the Hat characters. She is actually the entire reason I got into cel collecting in the first place.

By far Disney beats out WBs if you go back to the early movies. However, from what I have seen there can be very expensive WB pieces if you also go back into the 30s and 40s. Probably the highest Disney cel I have seen go for sale was around 40k-50k. The highest WB I have seen was around half of that.

Alright, back to studying for exams................

star-phoenix · Post by **star-phoenix** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:55 am

I actually did some research about this in the past year on American cels, especially the Disney ones.

From what I have found, the most highly sought after cels are the ones that had the greatest influence in our animation history, and are also the most expensive.

I would say hands down Disney. The most expensive artwork I have EVER seen related to Aniamtion was the original 1928 storyboard of Plane Crazy made by Walt Disney in 1928. This was his very first moving film that he made (and the first one ever). The cartoon was actually released in 1931 at #3 (Steamboat Willie was the first release to public) because Walt Disney signed a contract in with a company that made sound. So, he wanted music and sound to be played with all his films. The appraisal value of this piece was $3 million and they offer to sell it to me for $1.5 million (ummm . . . . . sure! let me check my other pocket!!).
From what the owner told me, it was originally featured in the New York art museum and someone purchased it from them.

Other cartoons I have seen that sold for a lot are the pre-1940's Mickey Mouse short films. I was told there are the 3 made cream of the crop Mickey cels that are the most expensive and highly sought after:
Plane Crazy (1928)
The Band Concert (1935) - Very first color film
The Sorcerer's Apprentice (1940 Fantasia Film)

I have never seen an in tact cel from Plane Crazy, but they have told me they would go $100,00 - 1-2 million
The Band Concert Mickey cel I have seen sell for up to $125,000 - $500,000 in an auction
The Sorcerer Mickey cel I have seen decent ones go for $20,000 - 30,000.

The other big films that I have seen sell the most expensive cels (prices from $5,000 - 120,000) are:
Snow White - First feature length film in history
Pinnochio - 1940
Dumbo - 1941
Bambi - 1942
Fantasia - These go for a lot, especially the ones with the original hand painted backgrounds
Cinderella
Sleeping Beauty
Peter Pan - Tinkerbell cels
Lady and the Tramp 1955 - the Love Scene I have seen go for $35,000

The other films that I think have not been as popular with Disney are the Silly Symphony films which were released 1929 - 1939. These were used as Disney's "experiments" when he attempted to work with the sound and color. The first color one, from what I have been told, came out in 1932 with Santa's Workshop, which was 3 years before Mickey's Band Concer (I think, not sure though).

The Warner Brother cartoons, especially the early Bugs Bunny cels What's Opera Doc (I think 1929??) I have heard cels run for $100,000+ on those. But, Warner Brothers, you can find great Bugs Bunny are relatively cheaper prices (less than $500).

So, that is the overall take on the Disney early films. If I had more $$, I would have gotten into Warner Bros. But, they can be just as expensive and I would hurt way too bad!

Strictly-Dragonball · Post by **Strictly-Dragonball** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:10 am

Duotrouble, may you enlighten me on this cel you saw please?

The website you refered to wouldn't be this one by chance would it:

www.animationsensations.com

These guys have stunning Disney and WB cels as their main focus, but also have other's as well. They have an original 'Robin Hood Daffy' with master's background and a very early Daffy and Porky Pig where they haven't even disclosed the value of those pieces!

And DBZ-Subzero, honestly I think that's very cool your mother is a collector of vintage cels and you collect Japanese anime I really do. My mum has said to me before when she retires she would love a cel from Snow White, she has seen a couple and thinks they are absolutely stunning and loved that film when she was a little girl. Because, when I started getting into cels a few years ago she didn't really understand why they were so much, but when she came to realise that I was buying original production cels that made DBZ she then thought that was quite cool and appreciates my cels for what they are even though she doesn't like DBZ lol.

I've been into DBZ since it first broadcasted over here in England so when I discovered cels (can't remember how lol) that was very, very interesting to me.

Can I ask how your mum got into them, was it just that she was always a fan of the cartoons and things, wouldn't she have got some of her Disney cels from Disneyland? I know they gave them out to kids as gifts! Or were sold very cheaply.

I've heard of Disney cels going well over the $50,000 mark, I think these records have most likely been beaten now but these are some records of cels being sold at auction houses etc...

http://www.your3dsource.com/most-expens ... -cels.html

Star-Phoenix, you have an incredible collection of Disney cels.

Strictly-Dragonball · Post by **Strictly-Dragonball** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:33 am

I think 'What's Opera, Doc was actually late 1950's, 1957 I believe and $100,000 doesn't surprise me for one of those as it's held in such high regard by both cartoon enthusiasts and people in the animation field.

Do you guys think there are a lot of fake Disney and WB art out there, like with Japanese anime you have cels, douga, genga, storyboards and Hanken. You don't have seri-cels, serigraph's, litho-graphs, limited edition cels, limited edition etchings and thinks like that which a lot of American animation studio's release periodically for collectors.

Even Fox does this with the Simpsons and Family Guy etc (I have seen limited edition Simpsons cels cel for several thousand $$$$ too)

So with so much choice Id imagine it's much harder to distinguish an original production cel from say a very early WB short from something else, most come with COA's (even some original's if they come directly from the studio) but not from early ones I don't think.

I can't imagine WB having many cels left in their vaults and if they do, do you think they would just sell them to individual people?

ReiTheJelly · Post by **ReiTheJelly** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:41 am

While I agree with star-phoenix's list, I would add that The Little Mermaid can also command insane prices. I have the original 1990 Sotheby's catalog for their Art of the Little Mermaid auction. Many of the estimated values were in the thousands. I don't have the catalog with me right now, or I'd check the list of realized prices...

ashenfairy · Post by **ashenfairy** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:28 am

Disney easily wins out for me because the artwork on older Disney films is so amazingly beautiful. There's really nothing that compares to it today. I do enjoy the older Warner Brothers animation immensely but, in terms of the beauty of the artwork, it just doesn't really compare for me. Though some of those backgrounds were absolutely breathtaking.

For me personally I'm most interested in obtaining cels from Fantasia and high quality cels from it would be my American art "Holy grail". But, I've consistently been soundly trounced whenever one I'm interested in comes up for auction and whenever I've attempted to save up for one from a dealer it's always gone by the time I get close. *grumble*

duotrouble · Post by **duotrouble** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:20 pm

Strictly-Dragonball wrote:Duotrouble, may you enlighten me on this cel you saw please?

The website you refered to wouldn't be this one by chance would it:

www.animationsensations.com

That's a cool site but it wasn't the one i was thinking of. If I find it, I'll post it here. I've had about 2 seconds of time on my home computer, which is where it was bookmarked. Maybe this weekend I can look for it.

And it was a private collector. It is not displayed online nor will it be.

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:20 pm

Oh I get it. Very interesting.

DragonballZSubzero · Post by **DragonballZSubzero** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:01 pm

Strictly-Dragonball wrote:
Can I ask how your mum got into them, was it just that she was always a fan of the cartoons and things, wouldn't she have got some of her Disney cels from Disneyland? I know they gave them out to kids as gifts! Or were sold very cheaply.

Sweet, story time....

Well its kinda a funny story. My mom has always liked all types of art and really wanted to be an art major when she was in college. She decided to go into teaching, but still worked in art galleries and enjoyed buying unique creations.

So in a local gallery they had for sale a Winnie the Pooh production cel from an educational film. She was so fascinated with the fact that the artwork in front of her was actually used to make the show, she couldn't pass up the opportunity. She never thought she would see another one of these again.

It turns out that the owner of the gallery actually roomed with Chuck Jones' daughter Linda when she was in college. So she started getting in very nice WB cels that Chuck had drawn and signed. As a close friend of the owner, my mom was always allowed first choice from the arrivals. So it just basically expanded from there until the internet became the best source for cels.

Then when I was old enough, my mom would often give me cels of my favorite Looney Tune characters for my room. And like the majority of boys my age I watched Dragonball Z and eventually bought my first anime cel on eBay. And hundreds of cels later, here I am.

It also sucks that back when they were producing all these cartoons at WB the warehouses got so full of these cels that no one wanted. Considering how much acetate weighs, let alone the paper sketches, it was a storage nightmare. So the thousands of cels from various decades of work were destroyed to make room for much needed space.

Oh, and when I meant I had seen Disney cels go for 40-50k, I meant I actually saw the piece in person. I know that they go for astounding rates in private auctions and even on the internet.

Strictly-Dragonball · Post by **Strictly-Dragonball** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:46 am

That's an incredibly cool story! And you were exposed to cels young, and got to appreciate some quality WB cels too. Lucky man lol.

But yeah, wasn't it in the late 60's that WB destroyed like some 30 years of their animation history? Sad really.

Caroline · Post by **Caroline** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:56 pm

are we talking about the most sought-after in general terms? or personal terms?

in general terms, well yeah i think the prices for disney are undeniable.

personally, the most i would justify spending on american prod work would be on mary blair concepts, priced in the thousands.