What makes animation art valuable to you?

[sensei]

I'm going to let the "animation art collecting is like..." thread run for a few more days before "harvesting" the results. There are some ideas there that are interesting and distinctive, which I don't want to muddy (yet) with the theory I'm testing.

But for the meantime, I'll just let drop that I'm investigating an idea expressed in several essays in a collection of essays titled The Socialness of Things: Essays on the Socio-Semiotics of Objects (Mouton de Gruyter, 1994).

Boiling down the postmodern jargon a bit, the contributors argue that things collected by people are fetishes. That's a heavily loaded term because it was used in a special sense by both Marx and Freud. These two authors make points relevant to our hobby: collecting animation art does turn the labor of individual artists into something that you can buy, and for many the competitive nature of the activity gives pleasure analogous to sex.

But I'm using the term more specifically in a social-sciences way as "an object endowed with exceptional power, [which gives its owner] a level of social influence greater than that possessed by ordinary people." Put a bit more simply yet: a fetish is a cherished object that changes the way people behave toward its owner and vice versa.

Most researchers agree that the thing that distinguishes a fetish from, say, a briefcase full of money or a luxurious home, is that the fetish has no intrinsic value. Its worth, therefore, is something that has to be generated and maintained by a subculture. Lose this social side, and the fetish is just another object. A cel is just plastic with paint, and a sketch is just paper with graphite scribbles.

So why do you feel the animation art you collect is valuable?

[star-phoenix]

Oh, another interesting question thread.

I would say in short, 2 answers:
1 - For nostalgic reasons, I cherish my animation art based on what I loved as a child (especially in relation to Disney).
2 - This reason developed more so in the past 6 years. For "value" reasons, I cherish an animation art greatly based on its historical impact in the film or animation industry.
For me, I love cels and would collect thousands more if I could afford it. Unfortunately, my tastes have grown exponentially to my wallet size. With that said, I have become extra careful in choosing my art since I can generally only afford to buy one art per year because of their expenses. So, I have been aiming to purchasing arts that cover both #1 and #2 reasons.

[ReiTheJelly]

Art is valuable because we as a society assign intrinsic value to it in terms of money. For me, the amount of money I'm willing to spend on a piece correlates directly to my aesthetic and emotional attachments to the individual piece. Whether or not the rest of society agrees with the amount I spend is another story altogether.

[JWR]

For me I do actually look at the cels and sketches as real pieces of art just like a painting or sculpture. Each piece is a created from first the imagination of the artist then put to paper and then painted onto a cel or scanned into a computer to be then animated. Being involved with comic book artists I have seen the amount of work it takes to draw out a scene.

The other reason I collect is that in each piece I can pretty much recognize each image frozen in time by that cel or sketch. When I see it I can "play" the scene inside my head.

That may well be one of the reasons one has when attempting to explain the hobby and showing ones collection to someone who has not seen the show. To them they are just "pretty images" for if one has not seen the show they don't have the same connection. We all can appreciate when someone shows off a wishlist cel they got from a series we know and have seen. It's a little harder to understand the importance another gives to it if we have not seen the series for one's self.

[teggacat]

oh my, Sensei's on the prowl with his thought provoking questions, put on your thinking caps!
Collecting for me is a very private personal thing, the only people really aware of this habit are the virtual enthusiasts lurking out there. Basically no one in my family/freinds understands or has really seen my collection.
That being said, the value comes in as a very personal private somewhat emotional connection I have to said cel. Not really a monetary thing at all. I have several pieces that I value highly for my own private reasons and would never consider selling, while others are less "valuable" in that sense and could easily part ways from me. So the value, I guess, for me is more of an emotional personal connection, not really about a monetary price, but creating a welcome enjoyable escape from real life every once in a while

[sensei]

[iceman57]

Q. What makes animation art valuable to you?

A. The fact that behind the broadcast on television, there is human work, handmade by adults to help childrens to understand our society and the definition of good and bad. Preserve/Collect an animation raw material is the essence of respect for those individuals hidden behind the released products on TV screen and that indirectly made children built a part of their youth, their own opinion, decades ago.

[GuyvarIII]

Most researchers agree that the thing that distinguishes a fetish from, say, a briefcase full of money or a luxurious home, is that the fetish has no intrinsic value. Its worth, therefore, is something that has to be generated and maintained by a subculture. Lose this social side, and the fetish is just another object. A cel is just plastic with paint, and a sketch is just paper with graphite scribbles.

So why do you feel the animation art you collect is valuable?

A briefcase full of money has no intrinsic value. Its value comes from the fact that it is generally accepted as valuable by the populace at large.

I see Animation Production Artwork more so as representational iconic moments, poses and images, than painted plastic and graphite scribbles on paper; and I feel this is true of the greater populace beyond the cel/sketch collecting community. Acetate, paint, graphite, ink, and paper are merely a creation medium, rather than a definition of what Animation Production Artwork is. My knowledge of and feelings about a scene, character, show, director, character designer, or whatever, as well as the seller’s and the animation art collecting community’s knowledge, will have an effect on the monetary price of the artwork, i.e., an additional value given by juxtaposing the images with their original context; but I think there is an overarching, inherent, intrinsic aesthetic value found within the depicted images on prized cels and sketches -- which can be seen by most everyone.

Images directly from, and inspired by moments in, Anime are routinely used on advertisements to entice both hardcore Anime fans and the general public into buying shows they haven’t seen. Even if the individual cels and drawings I collect weren’t created to be sold, they were used in the creation of a consumer product that was funded and created with the intent for it to sell. Posters, toys, art books, and perfunctory trinkets with character images are given a monetary value that is, to a certain extent, generally accepted. Why shouldn’t I believe that the artwork I own, which has the added je ne sais quoi of “originalâ€

[sensei]

A briefcase full of money has no intrinsic value. Its value comes from the fact that it is generally accepted as valuable by the populace at large.

True, a point made by Marx and many other economists. But I thought it would be a clearer counterexample than what I'd initially written, which was "a briefcase full of cocaine." The point I was trying to make is that the currency could be used immediately and without restrictions to pay bills or buy things that one wants. The luxurious home can be used in a variety of ways -- for privacy, for parties, for conspicuous consumption. Both are universally recognized as evidence of one's financial status. Yes, yes, the home may be mortgaged and facing foreclosure and the money may be counterfeit, but that's not my point.

But, as many collectors have found to their frustration, the investment one has in an animation art collection can't be easily "cashed out" at a time when the currency is needful. The money spent to gain bragging rights for a "wishlist" may not be recoverable. Also true of the luxurious home, as many Americans found recently.

So the "value" of a cel/sketch collection is problematic, especially as these objects are also (with some exceptions) not widely recognized as worth collecting even by collectors with closely related interests. It's to a large extent fixed within the smallish community of animation art collectors.

So while currency has an agreed-upon value in society at large, for most people the cels in our Itoyas are worthless. That's why in the TV show Let's Make a Deal! the top prize is the briefcase stuffed with cash, and not a Rurouni Kenshin cel with original master set-up.

[irmgaard]

But I thought it would be a clearer counterexample than what I'd initially written, which was "a briefcase full of cocaine." The point I was trying to make is that the currency could be used immediately and without restrictions to pay bills or buy things that one wants.

...But, as many collectors have found to their frustration, the investment one has in an animation art collection can't be easily "cashed out" at a time when the currency is needful. The money spent to gain bragging rights for a "wishlist" may not be recoverable. ...

So the "value" of a cel/sketch collection is problematic, especially as these objects are also (with some exceptions) not widely recognized as worth collecting even by collectors with closely related interests. It's to a large extent fixed within the smallish community of animation art collectors.

So while currency has an agreed-upon value in society at large, for most people the cels in our Itoyas are worthless. That's why in the TV show Let's Make a Deal! the top prize is the briefcase stuffed with cash, and not a Rurouni Kenshin cel with original master set-up.

A briefcase full of cocaine would not be without liquidity problems either!
I certainly wouldn’t want to run afoul of the local drug dealing establishment trying to exchange it for cash…

I have to say that, while I don’t think everything in our Itoyas would generally be considered valueless,
most likely they wouldn’t hold the same value we would ascribe to them.
But… that’s true inside our animation art collecting community as well.
While I’d love that hypothetical RK setup…if it was from the TV show, movie, or the first OVA,
I wouldn’t want it if it was from the second OVA, and I’m an RK collector!

I don’t see my collection as valuable, in the sense of being a part of an investment strategy, or portfolio.
I see myself as the end-user, really. Not that I don’t want to take care of them to preserve their beauty,
but as I didn’t buy them as sales inventory, I don’t think much of their fluctuation in price, availability, market demand, etc.
I consider the money used to purchase them as gone, much as I would consider that used for furniture, or fashion
…or travel or books.
I have several out of print books I could likely get more money than I paid for them if I were to sell;
(again, though, this would be from a very select group of people, not everyone is interested in rare books )
but I don’t want to sell them, I like them and wish to keep them.
It’s the same with my animation cels and sketches.

I can’t say I find value in bragging rights, as I haven’t posted anything up in years…
and I feel a little bad about that, considering I know I enjoy at looking at others’ galleries when they update.
I still like the look of what I have, so, probably, most of my animation art will stay with me for a while yet.

But if I come down with a fatal disease or am hit by a bus, I hope Jcaliff will come to my estate sale!
I have some Dororo cels she might be interested in!

[zerospace]

I, too, don't think of my collection as having any real intrinsic value or as any sort of investment. If it were an investment, it would be a horrible one. It isn't something that I can "cash out" when I need money, as it would hurt too much to sell those cels I hold most dear. When my husband and I sell artwork, we do so because we feel that those pieces of artwork are unloved in our care or to reclaim space in our house. I keep records of the amount of money spent on each cel for insurance purposes and for my own sick amusement.

The real "value" of my collection to me is completely about emotional attachment. I'm very much stuck on several characters, and my best pieces of artwork of those characters would be almost impossible to pry out of my hands for anything less than some completely absurd sum of money. This is not because anyone else says they are worth that, but because you'd have to pay off the majority of my debts to convince me to sell these pieces.

[Animechaos]

The way I collect, at least these days, I assume the art is only valuable to me. Obviously that's not true but it keeps your collection habits in check.

For one, you'll only pay what you personally feel the value is. To be more specific, you won't pay market value but rather what you're willing to cough up for it to be in your own collection. I might pay more than market value, maybe less, but never more than I'm willing.

For example, I've been looking to get a nice Nausicaa cel for some time now and have passed on quite a few really nice one. Looking at market value they're well within their range, but personally not worth it.

Secondly, I never never never ever get to into buying art assuming the value will go up, or that I can resell it later and get my money back and then some. If the art is "only valuable to me" then that means I won't be able to resell it. Again not true, but keeps me from paying silly prices for pieces I may desperately want. Yes, back in the old Anime Chaos days I made some $$$, but also added to my personal collection probably far too much. lol

Lastly, and my most important factor, did I like the character / show? I'll only put money down on pieces from series that I enjoyed....but I think that goes for most people. For example, I used to pay insane prices for Tenchi Muyo:Ryoko cels back in the day because I loved that character. But then say I had a chance to get an A quality cel of Deedlit from the Lodoss OVA for dead cheap.....I'd never buy it for my own collection because I think that series is overhyped garbage.

So it just comes down to finding art of characters and series you enjoyed at a price you're willing to pay. Pretty much a standard all-around.

I know my collection is valuable, but more so to myself than anyone. Everyone's collection are "tailor made" to them.

[Sui Kune]

I can't really put a monetary value on my collection, either. However, the value of my collection to me personally is through the roof. I love each and every piece, and some I'm even still in disbelief that I own. I'm also extremely emotionally attached to the main character I collect, a big reason why I started collecting in the first place.

While I know I won't collect only her forever, the characters I already know I will collect when I either find them or be better off financially I'll be extremely picky about. I only really want characters I truly love in my collection; this will eventually include Sailor Pluto and the Pokémon Suicune, Entei, Raikou, Absol, and Shaymin. Production artwork are the very pieces of these characters, and I want to be the best caretaker I can for them.

This brings me to another reason why artwork is so valuable to me: they're true pieces of art. It takes real skill to not only draw douga, but also paint cels. And it never ceases to amaze me what sorts of effects that could be achieved with pretty much little to no CG help back in the days of cel production. In comparison, CG anime almost seem too...."easy", not that it doesn't have challenges to produce too, but there's just not the same feeling of awe at seeing, say, bursts of hundreds of hand-drawn feathers.

[cutiebunny]

Like others have stated, I've never bought any artwork with the intent to resell it at a later date. Nor have I bought anything with the intent to mosey on down to the Antiques Roadshow in 50 odd years and expect to be told that my pile of sketches is worth 50 gazillion dollars.

I think the value of collecting artwork, for me, lies in the ability to share it with others. I love being able to hold a piece of animation history in my hands. In Japan, I've seen many examples of improper storage, so knowing that I've 'rescued' these items is a huge source of enjoyment for me. In the rare instances where I own a large pile of artwork from a particular episode or anime, I'm thrilled to be able to keep these items together for posterity.

In short, I think the value of the artwork lies in the potential to be able to hand the future a piece of animation history.

[sensei]

Someone did show up at Antiques Roadshow a few years ago with a whole scrapbook of Disney cels. She'd been a cel painter for the studio, and had gotten to take home some of the work after they'd gone under the camera and before they went out to the dumpster (or were wiped with Dip to use over).

I don't recall the appraisal sum -- it wasn't in the gazillions of dollars. The expert felt that the value of the scrapbook was greater as a personal keepsake than as a source of collectors' items. For one thing, all the cels (I remember a nice Bambi) had been trimmed to fit better on the scrapbook pages. So the sequence numbers etc. were all gone.

One part of me says, "Some day Tenshi ni Narumon will be recognized as the masterpiece of storytelling it obviously is, and my cels will be worth tens of gazillions of dollars." Then another part says, "Naaaaaaah. But haul down that cel book again. I really like that close-up of Silky."