To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question...

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JustVan
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To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question...

Post by JustVan »

Do you watermark the scans of your cels/artwork when you post them to your gallery? Why or why not?

I've never done it in the past because it's always felt a little pretentious to me (I may own the art, but I didn't create it and it feels wrong to put my name on it), and often I find watermarks distracting from the original piece. But I do realize it's a good way to keep tabs on your cels as they move through the internet, as well as a good way to redirect people back to your gallery. My gallery isn't especially big so my pieces aren't the kinds that are getting taken and turned into merchandise or used elsewhere. (At least not yet.) But I suppose it isn't a bad idea in general.

I'm curious what the general consensus is. If people have any Dos or Don'ts for watermarking.
JustVan's Cels: Unico, Escaflowne, Ranma ½, DBZ & more.
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by JWR »

Basicly it is a matter of choice. A lot do it to discourage people hotlinking or downloading your image to claim they own it or make fan cels from it.

I have never been bothered for I know I can open the safe and pick up one of my cel books and touch the real thing
"Like the wind crying endlessly through the universe, Time carries away the names and the deeds of conquerors and commoners alike. And all that we are, all that remains, is in the memories of those who cared we came this way for a brief moment." Harlan Ellison
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by teggacat »

as JWR stated, its really a matter of personal choice, Ive never been that freaked out by others that I felt the need to watermark,
also find it a bit distracting, I am content knowing I can simply go downstairs to my few remaining itoyas and low and behold, my cels are
there in my possession even if someone linked to them or "stole" the images, whatever... Again, simply a matter of personal choice.
I must comment also JV that I see you've been quite active in the cel world/forums and its great!!
I love your enthusiasm!
:cheers
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by Jadeduo »

Again a personal choice, a lot of the watermarking was done by Sailor Moon Collectors because there were a few image galleries back in the day that were stealing scans and using them for all sorts of things. So a lot of SM collectors used to watermark that way they could track the image theft.

There was also a lot of Fanartists that used to also steal as well claiming the cel was real, there is a lot less of that now so it is less of a concern.

I personally crop all my scans so you can't tell where the piece is in relation to the register holes. To stop that kind of fakery, I will also sometimes cut more out of the scan than that especially on more valuable pieces.

:cheers :cheers
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by cutiebunny »

I only watermark in cases where I think someone is going to right-click on my item, claim they own it and post it elsewhere. So, things like backgrounds and some CCS artwork, I don't bother with adding it. But, the nicer sketches and cels I own, I always add it.
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by theultimatebrucelee »

I don't think watermark is very useful nowadays with all the streaming services online, it'd be pretty easy to just take a screen capture instead assuming they know or can find the scene, its not like we own the character just because we got that piece of plastic. And then if people really wants to claim items as their own, can't they just...remove the watermark?
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by lunacels »

It's a good point--watermarks are not that useful. It's a bit of a false sense of security, and I confess I am tempted to redo my scans and remove them. In the early days, watermarking was the norm, and before I started I'd already had some swiped scans from my tripod site show up on eBay. X| But really, a watermark could be edited out fairly easy, or just cropped. I keep going back and forth, but mostly they're still there out of a lack of desire to update all my scans.
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by Drac of the Sharp Smiles »

When I had a gallery, I watermarked my scans. However, the things people have been saying here are ALL things with which I have to agree. I don't think watermarking has ever been really useful because any watermark which still lets you see the image enough to enjoy it is inevitably something someone could erase away with enough dedication. Even when I was watermarking my own scans, it was really more because it seemed to be "the thing to do". I always assumed watermarking would only be minorly pesky to the laziest of scan stealers.

Another thing I did was mentioned by Jadeduo. I would crop my scans, especially the registration holes and sequence numbers. (I've revealed the sequence numbers of my own cels probably no more than 2-3 times ever.) I would also often make sure the sides of cel scans were cropped to not show the edges of the paint. Background scans were often clipped to not much larger than the cel.

Ultimately, it comes down to exactly what JWR and teggacat said. I can walk over to my cel book shelves and put my hands on the actual cel. But that still doesn't mean I want scans of my pieces all over the web. (Wanting my scans to remain mine only is the reason I have no online gallery anymore.) This is especially true for sketches. While I agree anyone take screen captures of cels from the streaming videos all over, sketches are another story. They DON'T show up in the video directly.

It's kind of amusing that sketches, in which I initially had much less interest then for cels, are now what I'm least likely to want to post online because I'm more protective of the images than I am of the cels, which appear directly on the screen. ^_^
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by JustVan »

Drac of the Sharp Smiles wrote: I would crop my scans, especially the registration holes and sequence numbers. (I've revealed the sequence numbers of my own cels probably no more than 2-3 times ever.) I would also often make sure the sides of cel scans were cropped to not show the edges of the paint. Background scans were often clipped to not much larger than the cel.
I find this so interesting, because I always try to make sure to include the registration holes, the extra paint of the background, etc. All the things you don't get to see when they filmed it. I find those often to be the most interesting parts of the cels. Not showing the sequence number at all kind of hurts my heart. Like to me it's almost a "What's the point of scanning it then?" Just look at the screen cap. Obviously I get that a scan is going to be much clearer and nicer, but I also really feel like part of the joy of having the cel is to see the whole thing, not just the close-cropped part.

But I'm not very protective of my scans, and never have been. Maybe it's because I don't have a lot of cels and those I do have have never cost more than $300 and more usually $100 or so. But, I dunno. I guess it's just never bothered me to see people using the images for themselves. I wouldn't want people to try to sell my scans to people and scam them out of a cel they thought they were getting, but I don't think that happens much.

In the end obviously it doesn't matter what people do with their cels. I'd certainly rather your method than to see cels disappear offline forever, never to be seen again. It's just always interesting to me to see the different ways people feel about their cels. I wanna show mine off to everyone.
JustVan's Cels: Unico, Escaflowne, Ranma ½, DBZ & more.
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by Drac of the Sharp Smiles »

JustVan wrote:In the end obviously it doesn't matter what people do with their cels. I'd certainly rather your method than to see cels disappear offline forever, never to be seen again. It's just always interesting to me to see the different ways people feel about their cels. I wanna show mine off to everyone.
Yes, that's exactly my dilemma. I loved having a gallery and showing off and writing about my cels. I had a lot of fun with my gallery. Then the scans started showing up in Google searches and on "image sites", sometimes watermark and all, and it ticked me off. Those first few I caught were removed from the sites when I requested they be removed, but there are at least two of my cels that show up in Google image search results to this day (credited to a site of mine that hasn't existed for a decade), even though I removed my own scans multiple years ago. When it was obvious that people had utterly no respect for my request to not take my scans, I took everything offline.

Ultimately, the reason to never show the sequence numbers and edges of the paint is the reason you stated. "They're all the things you don't get to see when they filmed it." That means if there is ever a question who owns the actual cel, should a copy be made, I'm the one that has the dated file of the complete and unedited scan. (*shrug*)
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by Rekka Alexiel »

Maybe the "art of watermarking" is a thing of the past?

I've always watermarked my stuff, whether I technically own the images or not. For cels that I purchased and scanned myself, at least the scanned image is mine. The artist, character designer, art studio, and whomever else can still keep their copyright intact. It just irks the crap out of me when people are so lazy as to take your images from a Google search and use it as they like without permission. Maybe it's a dying mindset, but I don't think it's very hard to ask to use something before taking. *shrugs*

On another front, I was pretty adamant on watermarking my manga scanlations, mostly because I felt like I needed to "scar" the scans enough to make people who liked the chapters want to purchase the actual manga for pristine copies. Unlike most scanlation groups, I work alone. I purchase the monthly manga book, rip it from the binding, scan it, edit, translate, typeset, and upload it to my site. I slapping on a little watermark for all that work is justifiable. Then again, it's a little too much to ask people to be civil about it.

Recently, I released 3 chapters of the series I've been working on without watermarks... and I really don't know how I feel about it. I'm sure the readers will like it better... but I feel worse about it. Is it just me? Am I weird in feeling that way? I really only started this sort of work to get people interested in the work of the author... but it freaks me out how quickly some sites will grab and distribute the chapter without a single word. :P I guess that's just the nature of the beast.

But that's my 2 cents on the topic. I would rather watermark, but when people give me the most insane crap over it... it's really not worth it. Petty fools.
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question..

Post by Krafty »

Rekka Alexiel wrote:I've always watermarked my stuff... It just irks the crap out of me when people are so lazy as to take your images from a Google search and use it as they like without permission. Maybe it's a dying mindset, but I don't think it's very hard to ask to use something before taking. *shrugs*
I was pretty adamant on watermarking my manga scanlations, mostly because I felt like I needed to "scar" the scans enough to make people who liked the chapters want to purchase the actual manga for pristine copies... slapping on a little watermark for all that work is justifiable.
Recently, I released 3 chapters of the series I've been working on without watermarks, I'm sure the readers will like it better... but I feel worse about it. Is it just me? Am I weird in feeling that way? I really only started this sort of work to get people interested in the work of the author... but it freaks me out how quickly some sites will grab and distribute the chapter without a single word.
Yep, just keep watermarking. In your case I can see how ruthless, lazy people will take your hard efforts and either claim it as their own work or at least take it with no acknowledgment. 20 years ago this online behaviour persisted and is still prevalent today; I get the impression many people feel they have a right to take it simply because it is available on the internet, in the public domain.
Good for you, Rekka, you should stick with your watermarking.

I used to watermark my Akira cels when I added them to my website around 18 years ago. I had found that people would take the images, use them for their own fan pages (without crediting) and even use them to make merchandise. I've found my images on various blogs over the years in multiple countries and it used to bug me but I'm far less possessive nowadays because I remember I am the one who actually owns the artwork and have more important things going on in my life. In a couple of cases I laugh because I purposely doctored an image with my website name making it look like an advert in the picture. LOL ^__^

The upshot is, I do prefer to see images without watermarks but support watermarking to credit the owner/originator. No-one else has rights/permission to use it for themselves anyway so if everyone gets a glimpse of the picture, that's good enough!
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question...

Post by star-phoenix »

I watermark the larger scans of all my art. The reason for this is when I first started posting scans of my art over 12-13 years ago, I ended up finding images of my Anime art on fan made merchandise on eBay (particularly the Inuyasha and Fushigi Yuugi art I had) and fan cels were made from my art. So, I always do it. At least that gives me a sense of knowing that it is harder to copy from me. I pay A LOT for my collection, and while the images are copyrighted to the makers, I still own the psychical piece of art, and I do not like seeing others copy it and sell it for profit.
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question...

Post by ReiTheJelly »

I used to watermark cels, but I haven't done it in years. It is frustrating to see "my" artwork being used on other sites without credit, but TBH, anyone who is stilled in photoshop could have edited out my watermark anyways. And I don't really own anything expensive enough to warrant being worried about copies being made and sold.
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Re: To watermark or not to watermark, that is the question...

Post by BuraddoRun »

Sorry to post in an old topic. i hope I'm not breaking any rules by doing so. Hmm...maybe I should actually read up on the rules again. X| Anyway, I'm just making conversation.

Anyway, I don't watermark. I own the original artwork in my gallery. I really don't mind if people repost it, not that I've ever seen that happen anyway. And if I ever sell a piece, it's gone, and I won't worry about where it went. The buyer can do whatever he wishes with it.
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