What bothers you about this hobby?

[nowherekid85]

Everyone should come join us in the Cel Chat if you feel like connecting one of us is almost always in there banging around sometimes it's not so active but I get to talk to collectors everyday and it's a blast!

Usually Me, @earl, @nowherekid85, and some relative newbies @brandon_t, @under9000, and @rookz and more! Are usually in there intermittently throughout the day, so just stop in and chat with us!

Yes but be warned while we do chat about art or cel stuff on occasion there is a lot of very off-topic, random, and sometimes NSFW talk and obscene language lol... *tries very hard to look innocent but probably fails...*

Oh and a lot of Pokemon Go talk right now.

[Jadeduo]

*looks innocent*

[nowherekid85]

Lol nice try.

We're really a lot of fun though, we're not that bad, but I just feel bad for the people who join expecting it to be a very serious, informative, educational chat or something. And then we show up.

[nowherekid85]

I was just trying to edit my last post because I misspelled something and accidentally quoted myself instead and didn't see where to delete this post.

[star-phoenix]

I think what bothers me the most is similar to others in that there used to be a huge interest in the Anime art hobby and now there is way less. A lot of my Anime pieces I would not even get 10% recovery for the price I paid back in 2005-2007. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love my Anime cels and intend to keep them. But, it does leave a sour taste in my mouth feeling like I way overpaid for the majority of them.

In terms of American art (ie Disney art), however, I have noticed these are still having a lot of really strong interest and the prices still are running strong with them, but tend to fluctuate a lot with the economy.

[ReiTheJelly]

OT, but I love that you still have that Takae setup. Is a gorgeous setup.

Remind me about her in June. I'll sell her back to you for what I paid.

[Pwnix]

Maybe there will be a resurgence of interest in cel collecting. I'm certainly interested. I'm thinking I'll start getting some cels soon and I'm usually behind the pack when it comes to trends. Although if that's not the case at least there's one new person interested in starting to collect production materials. That said cel collecting will likely be a small part of my collecting habits, I am very interested in starting nonetheless.

If everything (unlike video game collecting which is my main thing) is getting cheaper these day maybe it's a good time to start out collecting haha. I got into video game collecting a little late so everything is pricey, maybe I can finally be first on the scene a bit with production material collecting.

[teppy]

I would wager that sizable interest in cel collecting will not return. The factors for such a resurgence are not and cannot be present:

- The audience who has a nostalgic connection to shows with cel production continues to age
- Even if younger generations become interested, cels are:

--fragile
--prone to deterioration
--"A list" examples are expensive
--good examples are rare
--conservation is expensive and takes time

I think this hobby has a built in time lock and audience. The hobby (for anime) cels reached its zenith when the world wide web came online due to a confluence of factors:

-- shows were still being produced with cels
--younger people who were fans of shows form the 70, 80s and 90s were growing up and had actual jobs with disposable income to spend on cels, but may not have yet had other life commitments
--the WWW allowed for cel shops to reach fans all around the world

Unfortunately, these factors have waned.

Disney is such a cultural behemoth that I can see its cels retaining value. I also believe that top examples from all time popular anime shows will continue to hold or possibly gain value. However, I would think that most other anime cels will go down in value.

I do wish there was more of a cel community. And, since I rarely post, I thought I'd contribute here

[Frysende]

Disney and Miyazaki cels will definitely hold value, in my mind. I mean, Pwinx and I just started collecting recently, so that's a tiny drop of two newcomers in an almost dry bucket.

I know, at least personally, I'm not collecting for resale value or prestige. I'm just a nerd with some money. I have a great love of animation from both hemispheres and the idea of owning a piece of what went into shows I like just seems too good to pass up. I think what bothers me about the hobby so far is not so much the waning interest... sad as it may be for older collectors who spent a fortune or for those who are trying to unload to pay bills and finding poor returns, it is nice for newbies to get a chance at some great pieces. All hobbies have an ebb and a flow. What really strikes me is somewhat three-fold.

First off, resellers. I think that point has been hammered home here enough but I figured I'd say it again.

Secondly, those with unreasonable expectations about what they have. Now, don't get me wrong. When people spent a lot of money on something and want to try to recoup, that isn't what I mean. Markets change and collectors can still try to get close to what they paid if they want to sell, and so long as they're up front about it, I think everyone respects that. What I mean is when people have cels from little known shows or items in bad shape and they price them like they're Disney. Or people who treated their cels badly (exposed to direct sunlight, anyone?) and think that the value hasn't depreciated in the slightest. Most of this comes with ignorance and greed rather than a genuine desire to unload cels and not be in debt or otherwise living in a house that's 75% binders, which is why this doesn't really apply to a-b.

Finally, it's the fact that not many people even know this stuff exists. A good point was made about the start of the WWW boom and the fact that switching from cels definitely made it hard for the new generations to get into collecting... but sketches and storyboards and such still exist. I just find it odd that a new boom hasn't happened for other types of production art as people like me (late 90s babies) are getting jobs and having lots of nostalgia for our early 00s shows.

[jcaliff]

One of the biggest problems preventing a new boom is that so many shows are moving away from hand drawn paper art, period. First it was the death of cels when digital ink and paint became prevalent, now douga is getting phased out as in-between and corrections work is being done digitally. Younger artists who are used to sketching on tablets will lead to a general reduction in genga and paper concept art. Even 2d animation is starting to be done more often with digital armatures which can be manipulated in the computer, which means fewer drawings as well. Animation production art is ephemera, a work product meant to be disposable. If it's not needed for the work to be done, it won't be produced and can't be collected.

In terms of value, even Disney and Ghibli have limited investment potential. They may maintain their value, but whether they increase greater than inflation is a gamble. Art in general is a terrible investment. That's the theme of my last slide for Comicpalooza on Saturday. Unless you find previously unknown Disney Pinocchio cels in your grandmother's attic, the odds of actually making money on animation art is slim.

[teppy]

One of the biggest problems preventing a new boom is that so many shows are moving away from hand drawn paper art, period. First it was the death of cels when digital ink and paint became prevalent, now douga is getting phased out as in-between and corrections work is being done digitally. Younger artists who are used to sketching on tablets will lead to a general reduction in genga and paper concept art. Even 2d animation is starting to be done more often with digital armatures which can be manipulated in the computer, which means fewer drawings as well. Animation production art is ephemera, a work product meant to be disposable. If it's not needed for the work to be done, it won't be produced and can't be collected.

In terms of value, even Disney and Ghibli have limited investment potential. They may maintain their value, but whether they increase greater than inflation is a gamble. Art in general is a terrible investment. That's the theme of my last slide for Comicpalooza on Saturday. Unless you find previously unknown Disney Pinocchio cels in your grandmother's attic, the odds of actually making money on animation art is slim.

Great post. There's not much to collect if the ephemera, the byproduct of production, exists mainly in digital form.

Agreed about art as investment vehicle.

This hobby has been wonderful for a generation, but its time as a vibrant, living market is naturally dwindling.

[bidibadiboo]

One of the biggest problems preventing a new boom is that so many shows are moving away from hand drawn paper art, period. First it was the death of cels when digital ink and paint became prevalent, now douga is getting phased out as in-between and corrections work is being done digitally. Younger artists who are used to sketching on tablets will lead to a general reduction in genga and paper concept art. Even 2d animation is starting to be done more often with digital armatures which can be manipulated in the computer, which means fewer drawings as well. Animation production art is ephemera, a work product meant to be disposable. If it's not needed for the work to be done, it won't be produced and can't be collected.

In terms of value, even Disney and Ghibli have limited investment potential. They may maintain their value, but whether they increase greater than inflation is a gamble. Art in general is a terrible investment. That's the theme of my last slide for Comicpalooza on Saturday. Unless you find previously unknown Disney Pinocchio cels in your grandmother's attic, the odds of actually making money on animation art is slim.

Exactly! This hobby is sadly dying. Some new animators are already drawing their key drawings (genga) digitally! So is just about time animation studios don't make use of paper anymore. D;

[cutiebunny]

I don't know if it's dying because it's always been a very niche hobby. Yes, the amount of US collectors has dwindled in the past decade or more, but while some of that might be due to changing interests and responsibilities, I also think that as anime artwork prices increased for nice stuff from really nice series, it no longer had the appeal that it once did. It was a lot easier to justify spending $100 on nice artwork when it was available for a reasonable price than the prices that some cels and sketches sell for now.

Worldwide, I would probably venture to say that there are just as many collectors today as there was back in the early 2000s. Mainland China has really opened up as an anime/manga market whereas, 15 years ago, Japan had written them off still considering them to be a nation rife with bootlegs. Many young Chinese citizens are flush with cash and spend it freely on their interests. While many YJ sellers still won't ship internationally, there are now deputy services that cater to those living in China, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan. Can't pull yourself from work to attend a US con or obtain a visa to travel there? There are proxies that will attend charity auctions to bid on items for you (seen it happen at Anime Expo in 2015).

I don't think paper will ever be completely eliminated. People still enjoy reading physical manga. People still want to hold a tangible picture instead of only being able to view that on their smart devices and artists/companies, still needing to pay their bills, will give them the physical goods that they want. So while production will eventually go fully CG, there will still be original artwork. Companies will need to entice people to buy their goods, and what better way to do that than to offer them a quick doodle by a popular mangaka in a reprinted manga issue or hidden inside the cover of a Blu-Ray disc?

[xiaolungbao]

Besides not liking the insane and nearly criminal overpriced cel prices on ebay, I've been wondering if the hobby would benefit or be not, by having an official standard to grade and/or price cels? Much like how slabbing comics (ref: https://comicspectrumblog.wordpress.com ... t-to-slab/) has completely changed comic grading and pricing. Not sure about the benefits or negatives for doing this. Just want to hear your thoughts.

[BuraddoRun]

Besides not liking the insane and nearly criminal overpriced cel prices on ebay, I've been wondering if the hobby would benefit or be not, by having an official standard to grade and/or price cels? Much like how slabbing comics (ref: https://comicspectrumblog.wordpress.com ... t-to-slab/) has completely changed comic grading and pricing. Not sure about the benefits or negatives for doing this. Just want to hear your thoughts.

I think artwork is too subjective for standardized grading. Also, even if one is graded only by condition, cels can degrade when stored even in optimal conditions, so something graded 9.8 in 2017 could drop to 8.9 by 2018. I just don't think it's feasible.

What bothers me about the hobby is the animation itself. The quality of production and artwork is night and day between cel animation and CG work. Sure, lots of CG shows are pretty, but there's just so much MORE to the hand-drawn stuff, and the animation from the cel days is usually so much smoother, and more pleasing to watch than the new stuff. I miss hand-drawn animation, which of course leads to a lot of the complaints about the hobby: less new stuff, lack of enthusiasm for collecting, no new blood collectors, etc.