On occasion, as I'm searching for items to collect, I will find something that begins to exert what almost feels like a magnetic force. Sometimes it's immediate, sometimes it takes a few days even.
I think to myself, "Well that's not exactly what I want, I better just pass." Nonetheless, it sits there in the back of my mind. Sometimes it won't really trouble me all that much. Sometimes it will get pretty strong. Of course if it's the only available example of a particularl sort, that will make things worse. Even when others are available though, it's still there.
I don't understand what's going on-sometimes I didn't even think I actually "wanted" the piece.
I've had this sort of thing go on for weeks, months even. It can even happen with more than one item at a time, and they don't have to be from the same series or what have you. I've had pieces of unknown origin [unknown series and character] cause this to happen.
There's this one piece-it's not for sale anymore that I know of right now. I never had a clue where it was from. Yet somehow, I find myself a little disappointed that I didn't get it, even though I didn't try.
I will say this-nearly every piece I've acquired that has caused this, I ended up really enjoying. Even the one time it went sort of "pear-shaped" as they say, I still ultimately found a way to appreciate the piece being a part of my collection
Is this a normal part of collecting? Am I the only person to whom this occurs?
There are those Pieces
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theultimatebrucelee
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Re: There are those Pieces
The disappointment happens to me mostly on the pieces I at least moderately desire but didn't get. Like to keep an open mind on what gets my attention outside of specific character/series. But what I do find this so called "magnetic force" is with specific criteria I obverse from certain unknown pieces, which then would lead me to attempt research the origin of it. If I like what I see and everything checks out then thats when I like to schedule a bid. If I cannot find enough information to justify, then it depends on how much I like the piece without knowing much else about it. If I attempted but lost out, then thats where once in a bluemoon I'd sit around my computer wondering if I'd be able to justify bidding more, if so would I had better chance etc. But overtime I tend to care less and less about those items, rarely, they will also resurface, and if I were to compare my other priorities over wasting time reminiscence over certain pieces of art lost, the issue tends to solve itself.
Re: There are those Pieces
I try not to dwell on the negative aspect of pieces "that got away". I mean, I know I can't have every piece I would like.
Sometimes though, interesting things happen in the process, even when I don't win an item. I've even thought of telling stories about some things I discovered in researching such pieces.
On occasion, things will cycle through availability. That's when it get interesting-to catch sight of a piece for sale you thought was likely gone for good. There's a bit of intrigue there.
Sometimes though, interesting things happen in the process, even when I don't win an item. I've even thought of telling stories about some things I discovered in researching such pieces.
On occasion, things will cycle through availability. That's when it get interesting-to catch sight of a piece for sale you thought was likely gone for good. There's a bit of intrigue there.
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sensei
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Re: There are those Pieces
Some of this relates to what anthropologist Mary Douglas calls "autographic objects," which are one-of-a-kind artifacts. That distinguishes them from "allographic objects," which are uncommon and desirable, but for which there are and always were more than one. (The current market for sports paraphernalia blurs this, as it's common for sports figures to autograph hundreds of identical artifacts. But even they try to emphasize the one-of-a-kindness by claiming that a given ball, helmet, jersey, etc. was actually used in a particular game. Tom Brady got caught fudging these details recently.)
Autographic objects tend to produce connoisseurs' markets. Consider the way that modern art is sold these days, commanding prices of hundreds of millions of dollars, with emphasis on the documented chain of ownership that guarantees that a certain canvas really is a genuine Rothko, Warhol, de Kooning, etc. But the distinctive thing is that ownership of such an item is all-consuming. If you own it, no one else in the world does, and no one can see it, even a scan of it, except by your permission. This idea, in itself, provokes intense emotions, and it's easy to get caught up in them.
The anime art market is a bit of an oddity: it consists of one-of-a-kind items that for economic reasons trade for very modest prices. And yet they do generate the same intense feeling of ownership as a desirable canvas of modern art or a bat actually used by Reggie Jackson to hit a game-winning homer. I commented recently on the odd states of mind that this could create, and so I think you're being prudent in seeing them as possibly risky. I've seen collectors drawn in by the relatively cheap prices and then in quick order get themselves head-over-heels in debt, because this or that "wishlist" item is impossible to resist buying. The saddest part was the crisis sales that this behavior led to when the debt became too demanding or when some more personally necessary financial need arose.
I've always said that you need to appreciate what you own as much or more than what you just acquired. If you can maintain that state of mind, then you'll be able to put "the thrill of the chase" into its right perspective -- as an important part of the joy of collecting but not as the primary reason for doing so.
And yeah, it's often interesting how something you thought you'd "lost forever" or "would never be able to own" nevertheless becomes available. Either that or something different but just as special. Trust the market and your patience, and good things will surely come to you.
Autographic objects tend to produce connoisseurs' markets. Consider the way that modern art is sold these days, commanding prices of hundreds of millions of dollars, with emphasis on the documented chain of ownership that guarantees that a certain canvas really is a genuine Rothko, Warhol, de Kooning, etc. But the distinctive thing is that ownership of such an item is all-consuming. If you own it, no one else in the world does, and no one can see it, even a scan of it, except by your permission. This idea, in itself, provokes intense emotions, and it's easy to get caught up in them.
The anime art market is a bit of an oddity: it consists of one-of-a-kind items that for economic reasons trade for very modest prices. And yet they do generate the same intense feeling of ownership as a desirable canvas of modern art or a bat actually used by Reggie Jackson to hit a game-winning homer. I commented recently on the odd states of mind that this could create, and so I think you're being prudent in seeing them as possibly risky. I've seen collectors drawn in by the relatively cheap prices and then in quick order get themselves head-over-heels in debt, because this or that "wishlist" item is impossible to resist buying. The saddest part was the crisis sales that this behavior led to when the debt became too demanding or when some more personally necessary financial need arose.
I've always said that you need to appreciate what you own as much or more than what you just acquired. If you can maintain that state of mind, then you'll be able to put "the thrill of the chase" into its right perspective -- as an important part of the joy of collecting but not as the primary reason for doing so.
And yeah, it's often interesting how something you thought you'd "lost forever" or "would never be able to own" nevertheless becomes available. Either that or something different but just as special. Trust the market and your patience, and good things will surely come to you.
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Angelic-Lair
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Re: There are those Pieces
I know what I feel that way about a piece... that I keep coming back to it; looking at it, thinking about it... it's usually a good indicator that I'm attracted to the image and should consider trying for the piece. For me, those are the only pieces I tend to go after anymore. I don't like collecting pieces that "fit" with our collection if they don't evoke an emotional response. And I think that's what you're describing - an emotional response to a piece of art. I see it as a good thing, personally. But don't beat yourself up about not trying to get it. You'll likely have another opportunity at some point and for sure you'll have more pieces that catch your attention in the same way. 
Re: There are those Pieces
It's also important to keep in mind the resources you have to hand in dealing with this or that item. Perhaps you (not speaking of anyone in particular here) have the money, but what about the space to store it? That's been under consideration a bit.
There are indeed particular things I would like to have, but getting too tied up in that can cause one to miss out on other cool stuff along the way. I know I said this previously, but in this field I think it should always be kept i mind. There's always the possibility that something one really wants simply does not exist anymore. I'm sure massive amounts of these artifacts were ultimately destroyed, or they may even have just disappeared.
In that respect, some of the remaining pieces actually end up recommending themselves. This is likely a variant of the sort of magnetism I'm talking about. There are a myriad of reasons one might really like a particular piece, and they aren't always the same for every collector.
Animation is kind of tricky because there could be several examples in a sequence that are very similar to each other.
What you wind up with is artifacts that are "one of a kind" in a technical sense (if the exact same douga was painted to a cel twice by the same artists with the same paint, more than likely there will still be some subtle difference between the two.), but not totally unique otherwise because of how much alike the other cels in the sequence are to it.
I'm guessing this ties into the desire to own "key cels" and the initial cel of a given sequence.
There are indeed particular things I would like to have, but getting too tied up in that can cause one to miss out on other cool stuff along the way. I know I said this previously, but in this field I think it should always be kept i mind. There's always the possibility that something one really wants simply does not exist anymore. I'm sure massive amounts of these artifacts were ultimately destroyed, or they may even have just disappeared.
In that respect, some of the remaining pieces actually end up recommending themselves. This is likely a variant of the sort of magnetism I'm talking about. There are a myriad of reasons one might really like a particular piece, and they aren't always the same for every collector.
I try not to let my feelings run away with me. Just as an example, I have called to mind scenes from a series and think "Wow, that's so cool, I'd really like a piece from that scene", then I find myself thinking "Would owning a piece of this scene really make me any happier than what I already have?" While that is not always a major consideration it does factor into the thought process, and I think it serves as a limiter.sensei wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 9:55 am I've always said that you need to appreciate what you own as much or more than what you just acquired. If you can maintain that state of mind, then you'll be able to put "the thrill of the chase" into its right perspective -- as an important part of the joy of collecting but not as the primary reason for doing so.
Animation is kind of tricky because there could be several examples in a sequence that are very similar to each other.
What you wind up with is artifacts that are "one of a kind" in a technical sense (if the exact same douga was painted to a cel twice by the same artists with the same paint, more than likely there will still be some subtle difference between the two.), but not totally unique otherwise because of how much alike the other cels in the sequence are to it.
I'm guessing this ties into the desire to own "key cels" and the initial cel of a given sequence.
Re: There are those Pieces
I thought I'd add an anecdote to my previous response. A couple of months back, I had a shot at a nice douga from what I thought was a very striking scene. I thought about it for awhile, then decided that it wasn't that big a deal. Somebody else bough it and it bugged me for awhile afterwards.
Why am I bringing it up? Because I had almost forgotten about it. While it is true the thought of owning it came back to me, the fact that it has faded this far suggests that I should for the most part be able to handle this kind of thing.
Why am I bringing it up? Because I had almost forgotten about it. While it is true the thought of owning it came back to me, the fact that it has faded this far suggests that I should for the most part be able to handle this kind of thing.
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JWR
- Kitten Rescuer - Moderator
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Re: There are those Pieces
There are always ones that pop up from time to time that spike my interest even if I have not ever seen the show before. (of course now with simulcasting it become easier) I have purchased some pieces with no clue as to the show or who character shown. I have been very lucky that with the help of friends here I was later able to get that info and correctly identify them.
Once years back I got contacted by a person I had done business with before who offered me a large lot of sketch artwork from a show called Karin I had never heard of. The designs looked interesting as well as the brief storyline the seller was able to tell me seemed fun so we agreed on a price and I got close to 50 pieces. Then it took a while to locate a set of pirated dvd's of the show out of Hong Kong in which the translations for the subtitles had gone from Japanese to Chinese to English and not very well at all but with them I was at least able to determine what episode each piece was from and an idea as to what was happening. Later on once it was licensed and USA version dvd's became available I got a proper set. This was a rare occurrence that I was ever actually able to get ahead of the curve on a show before it became popular.
Later a good friend here put up a post that they were looking for artwork from that show but was having trouble finding any. I got to sent them a PM saying the reason she could not find any was that I had bought it all
at least I have no problem displaying everything I collect and even let her see them in person at my home one year she came out to Anime Expo.
Once years back I got contacted by a person I had done business with before who offered me a large lot of sketch artwork from a show called Karin I had never heard of. The designs looked interesting as well as the brief storyline the seller was able to tell me seemed fun so we agreed on a price and I got close to 50 pieces. Then it took a while to locate a set of pirated dvd's of the show out of Hong Kong in which the translations for the subtitles had gone from Japanese to Chinese to English and not very well at all but with them I was at least able to determine what episode each piece was from and an idea as to what was happening. Later on once it was licensed and USA version dvd's became available I got a proper set. This was a rare occurrence that I was ever actually able to get ahead of the curve on a show before it became popular.
Later a good friend here put up a post that they were looking for artwork from that show but was having trouble finding any. I got to sent them a PM saying the reason she could not find any was that I had bought it all
at least I have no problem displaying everything I collect and even let her see them in person at my home one year she came out to Anime Expo."Like the wind crying endlessly through the universe, Time carries away the names and the deeds of conquerors and commoners alike. And all that we are, all that remains, is in the memories of those who cared we came this way for a brief moment." Harlan Ellison
Re: There are those Pieces
Karin??JWR wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 4:13 pm Once years back I got contacted by a person I had done business with before who offered me a large lot of sketch artwork from a show called Karin I had never heard of. The designs looked interesting as well as the brief storyline the seller was able to tell me seemed fun so we agreed on a price and I got close to 50 pieces. Then it took a while to locate a set of pirated dvd's of the show out of Hong Kong in which the translations for the subtitles had gone from Japanese to Chinese to English and not very well at all but with them I was at least able to determine what episode each piece was from and an idea as to what was happening. Later on once it was licensed and USA version dvd's became available I got a proper set. This was a rare occurrence that I was ever actually able to get ahead of the curve on a show before it became popular.
Do you mean the series sometimes called Chibi Vampire?
*Goes to JWR's RubberSlug* I see you do.
I ran into this show researching a cut of Azumanga Daioh, of which I bought the genga and douga not to long ago.
This post here -> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31521#p358517 Under the heading Machine #2 "SAWAYAK" ("KARIN")
[Section starts just above the photo of Aya Hisakawa-san.]
Talk about a small world.
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JWR
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Re: There are those Pieces
Well the Chibi Vampire title was an invention of the USA publisher TokyopopPixel wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 4:52 pm
Karin??
Do you mean the series sometimes called Chibi Vampire?
*Goes to JWR's RubberSlug* I see you do.
I ran into this show researching a cut of Azumanga Daioh, of which I bought the genga and douga not to long ago.
This post here -> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31521#p358517 Under the heading Machine #2 "SAWAYAK" ("KARIN")
[Section starts just above the photo of Aya Hisakawa-san.]
Talk about a small world.
They thought using the correct title of Karin would be confusing with another title they published Kamichama Karin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamichama_Karin
"Like the wind crying endlessly through the universe, Time carries away the names and the deeds of conquerors and commoners alike. And all that we are, all that remains, is in the memories of those who cared we came this way for a brief moment." Harlan Ellison
Re: There are those Pieces
There's actually yet another manga titled "Karin", believe it or not.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encycl ... hp?id=4688
I tried to research it, but I really couldn't find much.
So I guess that makes three of them, then.
I guess I went a bit off topic, I just wasn't expecting to see that show pop up out of the blue like that. Surprises don't always happen to the owner of a piece, or in your case, a number of pieces.
More on topic, acquiring a desired piece from Japan can be particularly unnerving. It was particularly difficult the first time.
The wait of everything to work is a pain, but it feels like the chances of it getting lost somewhere along the way seem to increase when an ocean crossing is in play, even by air.
Of course, Customs can also be a hold up. There isn't much of a reliable way to tell if a package has cleared US Customs until it is scanned somewhere closer to the delivery point.
Even when using EMS, the time from placing a bid or an order to scanning or photographing the item in front of you can easily close in on two weeks.
Sometimes more patience is required in actually placing hands on an item than it is in finding it.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encycl ... hp?id=4688
I tried to research it, but I really couldn't find much.
So I guess that makes three of them, then.
I guess I went a bit off topic, I just wasn't expecting to see that show pop up out of the blue like that. Surprises don't always happen to the owner of a piece, or in your case, a number of pieces.
More on topic, acquiring a desired piece from Japan can be particularly unnerving. It was particularly difficult the first time.
The wait of everything to work is a pain, but it feels like the chances of it getting lost somewhere along the way seem to increase when an ocean crossing is in play, even by air.
Of course, Customs can also be a hold up. There isn't much of a reliable way to tell if a package has cleared US Customs until it is scanned somewhere closer to the delivery point.
Even when using EMS, the time from placing a bid or an order to scanning or photographing the item in front of you can easily close in on two weeks.
Sometimes more patience is required in actually placing hands on an item than it is in finding it.
Re: There are those Pieces
I think most anime cel collectors have seen images that "haunt" them from cel or sketch auctions. Even if I don't like the show or don't collect it, most times the image on the cel/sketch is the major motivating factor in whether or not I'll try to buy (within price constraints). If I don't get the auction, I'll look for similar items to show up.
Many beautiful or striking anime are old. And, while some popular shows of the past will be advertised and get re-released, it's doubtful there will be any promotion for the majority of these works. Because I collect production art, I have an opportunity to be introduced to more animation than I would otherwise. The moment a single, still, unfamiliar image stands out, among thousands of cels and sketches, is the moment I feel I should try and find out what that image is from.
Some of the anime I know about because I saw and bought an awesome cel include:
Toki no Tabibito - Time Stranger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AnSMSjFSjE
Desert Rose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e19S44k5gCQ
Salamander
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYQ25WVLHck
Hi-Speed Jecy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaj_aaFKb2E
Hikaruon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whAxITrI3oA
Maryu Senki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF0eLqMdu14
Shurato
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6USfMIOysjI
Thunder Jet - Ginga Sengoku Gunyuden Rai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOYnGG1WJxM
Metal Jack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYQM8xCt4wc
and
Sabu and Ichi's Detective Stories
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KYml6uGX_c
Finding out about and collecting "obscure" cels also gives me the opportunity to share these shows with others, through my Rubberslug gallery.
Many beautiful or striking anime are old. And, while some popular shows of the past will be advertised and get re-released, it's doubtful there will be any promotion for the majority of these works. Because I collect production art, I have an opportunity to be introduced to more animation than I would otherwise. The moment a single, still, unfamiliar image stands out, among thousands of cels and sketches, is the moment I feel I should try and find out what that image is from.
Some of the anime I know about because I saw and bought an awesome cel include:
Toki no Tabibito - Time Stranger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AnSMSjFSjE
Desert Rose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e19S44k5gCQ
Salamander
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYQ25WVLHck
Hi-Speed Jecy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaj_aaFKb2E
Hikaruon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whAxITrI3oA
Maryu Senki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF0eLqMdu14
Shurato
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6USfMIOysjI
Thunder Jet - Ginga Sengoku Gunyuden Rai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOYnGG1WJxM
Metal Jack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYQM8xCt4wc
and
Sabu and Ichi's Detective Stories
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KYml6uGX_c
Finding out about and collecting "obscure" cels also gives me the opportunity to share these shows with others, through my Rubberslug gallery.
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sensei
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Re: There are those Pieces
I've had that experience, too. In some cases, I've learned a great deal about an older (or even a relatively new) series because something hauled me over on a random trawl and made me think: "Wow. What is that??" Here are some examples of these "stop and stare" cels that I found that I had to go for:
Maeterlinck's Blue Bird (by the makers of Space Cruiser Yamato)
Microid S (Manga by Osamu Tezuka, Anime by Toei).
Grimm's Fairy Tales: The Golden Bird (Madhouse Studio, pre "Grimm Masterpiece Theatre," recently put up on YouTube in raw Japanese)
Syrius no Densetsu aka The Sea Prince and the Fire Child
Yousei-ou (Fantastically obscure shounen-ai Madhouse OVA). Still "one of a kind -- I've never seen anything else from this work FA).
While I don't advocate random browsing and willy-nilly buying on impulse, in these cases something went off in my solar plexus, telling me that this was worth getting, as Guyver says, just to start finding out about the series and its designing artists.
Maeterlinck's Blue Bird (by the makers of Space Cruiser Yamato)
Microid S (Manga by Osamu Tezuka, Anime by Toei).
Grimm's Fairy Tales: The Golden Bird (Madhouse Studio, pre "Grimm Masterpiece Theatre," recently put up on YouTube in raw Japanese)
Syrius no Densetsu aka The Sea Prince and the Fire Child
Yousei-ou (Fantastically obscure shounen-ai Madhouse OVA). Still "one of a kind -- I've never seen anything else from this work FA).
While I don't advocate random browsing and willy-nilly buying on impulse, in these cases something went off in my solar plexus, telling me that this was worth getting, as Guyver says, just to start finding out about the series and its designing artists.
Re: There are those Pieces
I tend to be very circumspect in what I collect. I have a set of rules that I generally go by regarding the sorts of things I will and won't collect. I have to think long and hard about buying unknown pieces, because I may find at some point that something I have falls way out-of-line with what I typically buy. It isn't always easy to find such things out though. If all I have is one cel to go on, I can't say for sure what I would do.
I am not always as circumspect as I probably should be, however.
In general, once one buys a cel/cels or sketch/sketches one is stuck with it, no returns or anything like that. So there's not much one can do if they decide "I probably shouldn't have bought that."
I mean it's not the seller's fault if I decide I don't like or shouldn't have bought something.
For the most part I like what I have. I have found some obscure things I like along the way, even.
I am not always as circumspect as I probably should be, however.
In general, once one buys a cel/cels or sketch/sketches one is stuck with it, no returns or anything like that. So there's not much one can do if they decide "I probably shouldn't have bought that."
I mean it's not the seller's fault if I decide I don't like or shouldn't have bought something.
For the most part I like what I have. I have found some obscure things I like along the way, even.
Re: There are those Pieces
I should clarify that. I have a set of rules that I generally go by in deciding whether a given piece is suitable for my collection. I can't rule out the possibility of obtaining some pieces as part of a group that I probably wouldn't buy if they were on their own. Sometimes, cels come in lots and you wind up with cels like that in the process of acquiring something in particular.