The Paradox of Anime Art Collecting

[Pixel]

I was commenting in a PM to Sensei the other day that J.C Staff seemed to be cool with all the old sketches floating around.

What I was trying to say that I was glad that their policies regarding older production materials were such that their seems to be a rather healthy trade in sketches from their older works, myself of course having a number of such sketches. It sort of came out rather awkwardly.

While thinking about how to how to elaborate on what I was saying, something occurred to me-part of those polices revolved around an apparent low regard for this material in the first place. Many of us-me included-have complained that production art should have been treated better by the studios.

However, if animation studios had valued their leftover production art more as we see it, there actually might be much less of it for us to collect today, even none at all in some cases.

Most of it was just thrown away wholesale. If they'd seen it as having real worth, they could have either kept it (unlikely given the space requirements), or kept only the pieces they deemed as being the most valuable while proactively destroying the rest. In effect demanding a high premium from any surviving pieces that might eventually come up for sale. Who knows how much could have been intentionally disappeared for good.

From what I've read, some studios actively destroy production materials for certain series once they are complete.

Thus we have the paradox of the hobby. The apathy toward production materials by the studios has played a key role in our ability as collectors to obtain and preserve them, and indeed to complain about the apathy previously shown toward them.

I do NOT assume that I'm the first person to think about this, but I just thought it was something interesting to think about anyway.

[cutiebunny]

Not all studios are so relaxed when it comes to collectors owning their douga and other production artwork. Aniplex is perhaps the worst of them. Someone on this forum brought production artwork to SakuraCon a few years ago to have signed by one of the guests, only for Aniplex handlers to become upset and demand to know where and how she obtained that artwork. She had to supply them with screenshots of the Mandarake auction to prove her innocence. But the majority of studios don't care if people own their artwork because they either have more important things to be concerned about and/or it wouldn't be worth the expense of having it returned.

Some studios also burned their artwork. Production IG burns their stuff 3 years after production. I inquired about buying some background artwork for my personal collection from a Production IG movie that did not fare too well when released in the US. I was told that the studio holds on to the artwork for 3 years in the event that it becomes a hit either domestically or internationally. This is done so that they can produce artbooks from the originals. But, if it doesn't become a hit, the artwork is burned.

The studios that did hang on to things had/have really nice stuff. When Madhouse was trying to avoid bankruptcy back in the mid-late 2000s, they released a lot of their premium hankens. A lot of those made their way to the US and into private collections. Toei, though, mostly trashed their stuff. Prior to the Sailor Moon revival, I visited the Toei Museum (which is actually a small group of rooms located in their animation studio), and Toei had this love-hate relationship with SM. If you had gone to the museum at the time, you would have seen that all the SM items and only the SM items they had on hand were left out to bleach in the sun. All were badly damaged when I visited in 2008. It made me think that there was some bad blood there.

Most of the apathy I've seen mentioned on this forum was more towards previous owners than the actual studios themselves. Yes, there are some cases, like a good portion of the Kobato backgrounds I own where the studio folded them to fit in circular bins, where the studio is clearly at fault. But with cels, particularly as most of these are now around 20+ years old, the frustration is rightly aimed at prior owners. You have the owners that smoked around their artwork, the owners that stored them in the same sealed rando plastic bag for the last 20 years, the ones that allowed cels to stick to their douga (or separate them only to restick again), have mold growing between layers, carelessly separated layers, or some combination of these things.

[Pixel]

Indeed, there are many sources of mistreatment of these materials. Sometimes studios are at fault, sometimes are the later owners. Frankly, I myself don't do the best job I know. I have found myself wondering many times whether I should really be talking about how anyone else has handled my own pieces.

Especially when I wind up causing more damage in the attempt to solve a problem. I ruined a Marmalade Boy douga trying to separate it from the matching cel. I felt kind of sick about it for awhile, but I was trying to spare both pieces from destruction.

I was thinking about the studio angle mainly because they were responsible for the existence of this material in the first place. One would expect them to be particularly concerned with the care of these pieces, since so much work was put into them.

Perhaps I see this a bit too personally. As someone who has attempted to produce art, I usually try to keep up with what I've made. Most of it originated digitally making it a matter of data storage and backups.

Not all studios are so relaxed when it comes to collectors owning their douga and other production artwork. Aniplex is perhaps the worst of them. Someone on this forum brought production artwork to SakuraCon a few years ago to have signed by one of the guests, only for Aniplex handlers to become upset and demand to know where and how she obtained that artwork. She had to supply them with screenshots of the Mandarake auction to prove her innocence.

That's why I'm glad J.C. Staff seems to be mostly cool with it, as does Toei. At least for older shows. I'm afraid they may have all decided to make their art difficult to get. Studios can at least attempt to raise a claim that other owners can't, as the originators of the work.

I'm not sure what Madhouse's position on newer material is. I don't know what the lead time is between a show's completion and artwork release, so I can't say if a production like Hanayamata is too new for Madhouse to consider releasing the assets (it's about 4 years old), or if they've decided not to at all for some reason.

I have a feeling whatever comes from the new CardCaptor Sakura series will cause quite an uproar. I wonder if perhaps it will only be reproduction or custom made rilezu. I'm not interested for myself, just as an observer of the broader market.

In starting this topic I was not saying that discussion of the mistreatment of materials is unwarranted. Nor do I assume the studios are entirely at fault. I was offering for consideration a particular aspect of how these materials have been treated historically by their producers, and how it has affected the hobby since.

As to Toei's apparent mixed feelings for Salior Moon-it's not the kind of thing I watch, so couldn't really say. The only thing I can figure is maybe they were hoping another series would be more successful instead. I guess that's possible.

You must have been in the vanguard of anime art preservation, cutiebunny. I appreciate very much your insights and information about specifics of the process. After all, collecting and preserving animation art is as much a process as its production.

[cutiebunny]

I'm not sure what Madhouse's position on newer material is. I don't know what the lead time is between a show's completion and artwork release, so I can't say if a production like Hanayamata is too new for Madhouse to consider releasing the assets (it's about 4 years old), or if they've decided not to at all for some reason.

The last 'recent' Madhouse artwork I purchased were the backgrounds from Kobato back in 2012. A good portion of those were bent to fit into a circular waste bin. My guess is that, based on that, you would have the best chance at getting artwork during its initial run or shortly thereafter. I thought that the seller had an 'in' to the studio somewhere. I haven't gone after anything Madhouse made since 2012.

I have a feeling whatever comes from the new CardCaptor Sakura series will cause quite an uproar. I wonder if perhaps it will only be reproduction or custom made rilezu. I'm not interested for myself, just as an observer of the broader market.

Are they still making rilezu? The last ones I bought were during when Hakouki aired, so that's got to be at least 5 years.

As to Toei's apparent mixed feelings for Salior Moon-it's not the kind of thing I watch, so couldn't really say. The only thing I can figure is maybe they were hoping another series would be more successful instead. I guess that's possible.

I remember reading somewhere that there was quite a fierce battle over the rights and royalties of this series. The treatment of the SM goods when the Dragonball goods were locked up in cases and far away from the sunlight seems to only support this.

You must have been in the vanguard of anime art preservation, cutiebunny. I appreciate very much your insights and information about specifics of the process. After all, collecting and preserving animation art is as much a process as its production.

No, that would be Sensei. I'm just an active, long term poster. The only thing I might be more of a specialist in is shikishi and other original art preservation, but that's probably because I've been collecting more of it longer than most people who still visit this board.

[Pixel]

The last 'recent' Madhouse artwork I purchased were the backgrounds from Kobato back in 2012. A good portion of those were bent to fit into a circular waste bin. My guess is that, based on that, you would have the best chance at getting artwork during its initial run or shortly thereafter. I thought that the seller had an 'in' to the studio somewhere. I haven't gone after anything Madhouse made since 2012.

Looks like I might be out of luck, then. I've only recently gotten access to more than tiny amounts of finished anime, and even what I have now isn't so great. I was utterly clueless about Hanayamata in 2014.

Are they still making rilezu? The last ones I bought were during when Hakouki aired, so that's got to be at least 5 years.

I don't know much about rilezu, but I would expect Madhouse to do something for CCS Clear Card-the broader franchise is probably their best known, and of course the anniversary should figure in as well. Whether that includes selling/releasing original production art from the new series....whose is it to say except them? I expect anything that does come from it to be hotly-contested though.

I remember reading somewhere that there was quite a fierce battle over the rights and royalties of this series. The treatment of the SM goods when the Dragonball goods were locked up in cases and far away from the sunlight seems to only support this.

Ah yes, I just love IP battles (!). One of my favorite examples, American TV shows released to DVD with hacked-up or missing music, because of licensing. The old Super Mario based cartoons are notorious for this, particularly the DVD release of the episode of The Adventures of SMB 3 where Milli Vanilli "performed". I bet I'm dating myself with that reference.

No, that would be Sensei. I'm just an active, long term poster.

I can't say I'm surprised about Sensei. I rather thought you both might have been in the vanguard, considering the round you went with Production I.G. If you don't mind me asking, were you able to procure anything from them?

The only thing I might be more of a specialist in is shikishi and other original art preservation, but that's probably because I've been collecting more of it longer than most people who still visit this board.

I've been considering collecting a small number of similar things such as autographs/signatures, but it seems like a minefield of potential fakes and copies. I was wondering, would you mind advising me were I to decide to try for something in particular? I know it's best if one can get something signed/drawn for themselves, but I don't really have means of long-distance travel at the moment.

I haven't forgetten the invite to Animazement, BTW. It was nice of you to do so, and I gave it a some thought. Something came up where I couldn't, even if I had means. Ah well, that's how it goes sometimes I guess.

[cutiebunny]

I've been considering collecting a small number of similar things such as autographs/signatures, but it seems like a minefield of potential fakes and copies. I was wondering, would you mind advising me were I to decide to try for something in particular? I know it's best if one can get something signed/drawn for themselves, but I don't really have means of long-distance travel at the moment.

Yahoo Japan is a good source for most things. If what you're going after are not super popular artists like Hiro Mashima, Akira Toriyama, Naoko Takeuchi, Osamu Tezuka..you're fine. Most people aren't after older mangaka or lesser known character designers. I've bought and continue to buy stuff on Yahoo Japan and have not have an issue. I look for accompanying documentation, like a winning notification or the ad from the magazine that originally awarded the autograph/sketch. Sometimes I'll Google that person's name and see what images pop up, and if any of those have an accompanying signature that I can use to compare to the one on the auctioned item. You want it to look similar but not exactly the same. You can sometimes find a scan of the original magazine ad that awarded it. Google searches have turned up some interesting stuff for me when researching artists.

If what you want are the big name artists, stick with Mandarake. If I really wanted something by a well known artist, I would only go for items sold on that website. You're going to pay a huge premium on those autographs and sketches drawn by very famous artists, but Mandarake does their research and you'll get exactly what you paid for.

Conventions are also another good way to get original artwork, but that usually requires you either being there in person or having someone who will attend and proxy for you.