The Rock Musical Bleach

Topics on anime/other animation TV series, OVAs, specials, and movies
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klet
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Post by klet »

Uende wrote:I'm sure the kids who played in this musical, as well as the production staff, the sponsors, the choreographers and everyone else involved who made this big production, will be happy to hear they're not taken seriously.

These guys give it everything they've got, evening after evening. I'm convinced they'll be ecstatic to hear they're considered crack.
I think that we are considering two very different types of productions here.

I took it seriously for what it was--a way to capitilize on Bleach fandom. It accomplished that goal. Think of the story/characters involved. They are not always serious. I think that they did a good job of keeping the silly separated from the few key scenes that were originally meant to be taken seriously.

Believe me, I've done productions before (not musicals, though :D), so I know how much work goes into this sort of thing. I know what it's like to get up on a stage, night after night, and try your darndest. I also know what it's like to be in a production that really sucks because of a few players (the last one I was in had a horrible lead who was type-cast--he couldn't act or project).

This was a musical based off an anime--I doubt that they meant it to be placed up alongside Kabuki theatre or Broadway. I could be wrong, since I have no way of knowing what was on the producers' minds, but that's the way it came off to me.
Uende wrote:The person who actually reviewed it is then being "attacked" for speaking the truth and waved away with “I did not take it seriously anyway” and “Who cares about their singing, I just mindlessly drool at the pretty boooys”
I thought that I made it quite clear that I am tone-deaf. I could not tell that the singing was off. I'm sorry, Uende, I know that you're a wonderful gal, but I will not be personally attacked for something that is beyond my control. I was born with no musical ability. Does that mean that I automatically lose the right to enjoy a musical in any way possible?

You are entitled to your own opinions, and I believe you that the singing was not all that great, but please do not bash me for not catching bad singing when it is physically impossible for me to do so. I know that you probably weren't aiming that at me specifically, but it did hit me rather hard.

I wasn't drooling mindlessly anyway--I was paying close attention to what they were saying the entire time, trying to glean some Japanese that I can understand. I love being able to do this--that's why I've taken 1 1/2 years of college-level Japanese and am currently attending a Japanese class that takes up much more credits that any other class I'm enrolled in.

As far as the pretty boys go, I consider this musical an obvious attempt to capitalize on the love of the characters. In my opinion, that's why so much trouble was put into the costumes, but it seemed that less went into the set. Also notice how the cast was much more heavily male. There is a female fandom in Japan--females are more likely to go to something like this (heck, you could hear them screaming the captains' names in the behind-the-scenes stuff :D )--so they took advantage of that. It looks like the actors were cast with a mix of things in mind--singing/dancing ability, minor resemblence to character, and, believe it or not, how pretty they look. It was another part of the production to appreciate--one that I could understand. I can understand costume, set, acting, dancing(though I can't really dance) and looks. Sorry that I don't get the music part. :shrug

I could be wrong about the objectives of the musical, but unless we interview the producers/scriptwriters/etc, we won't ever know the truth--but that's alright.



The only person who I might have "attacked" before this post is Baakay. I seriously hope that she didn't take me seriously. I joked about Orihime and flat-chested women . . . but it was a joke. I completely agree that they could have gotten someone with ample busoms or just stuffed her with a little tissue or foam or something. Then there was the singing . . . but I already explained why I found nothing wrong with it. So Baakay, if I upset you in any way, you can get kymaera to pelt me with rotten vegetables or something. I deserve it.

I'm sorry if all that did not come across in early posts. I thought it did, but then again, I know exactly what I'm thinking, and I'm pretty sure that none of you have that luxery (or curse, rather X| :P :D ). Hey, anything's possible, though--you guys scare me sometimes. :P :D :ghug:

All in all, I think this entire thread was written in the true Bleach spirit--sometimes serious, sometimes wacky, sometimes just plain funny. I think that is what the musical was all about.

If I offended anyone with this post, I'm sorry. It's all just opinion anyway. :shrug

:D :ghug: :friends: (I'm not mad--I promise)
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vampyreshoujo
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Post by vampyreshoujo »

*reads klet's post* 8O
Damn... why can't I write like that?? X| :hurt:

Very well thought out and well written. You pretty much said a lot of what I was thinking (but, again, unable to correctly express). /no1
but it seemed that less went into the set
....

It's because they spent the entire budget on the wigs.... :P
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Wendy
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Post by Wendy »

Yes, well written indeed and I'm not going to go into it very deeply because it will only add unnecessary fuel to the fire for it did not change my mind about what I posted.

I'm only sorry a nice, honest review like that could not be given earlier, to keep this thread more interesting instead of turning it into yet another fan girl drool fest.

What I am still failing to understand however; why attack someone who's making an honest review about something, who pointed out the flaws and not just "loved and enjoyed" everything about it just because the guys are so cute. Why feel the need to ‘defend’ something while it wasn’t under attack anyway?
Why lash out if some notice things you do not? If you are not capable of something, but someone else is because of semi-professional experience, why not just believe that person then and take their word for it, instead of feeling the need to counterattack with not so friendly, obvious irritable remarks, especially if that person is someone you know and someone you know not to sprout bullshit?

I'm not here to defend that person, she's more than capable of doing that herself, and it seems she wasn’t as upset about how she was reacted to as I was.
But I was really just shocked after reading the tone of those responds to her review and the “teaming up against her” that it made me post what I did, because frankly, the only time I'm apparently NOT ignored on this board is when I blatantly speak my mind.

What I was actually trying to say is that I'm concerned with the way beta is going.
Many threads are turning into before mentioned drool fests and apparently nothing has to be taken seriously anymore. I’ll be the first to admit it can be fun, especially if it’s done with a healthy dose of self ridicule, but lately its practically everywhere and it’s getting worse.
Not only is this constantly sexing up every single cute body within reach getting annoying and old, it's making other members not post anymore, not involving themselves in threads, blocking signatures and even considering leaving Beta, including me.
I know for a fact I'm not the only one who feels this way, sadly however, I am one of the few that actually say it out loud, so I’m going to be flamed for it. So be it.

This may sound overreacted to some of you, and my post was made out of annoyance about how this thread was going and what was being said, for me it was probably that last straw.
I think we should remember that Beta is still an open forum, accessible for everyone, everywhere. A lot of people are going to read what you are writing, probably more than we realize, and a lot of those people are not members of this board. It is, after all, still the internet.
If I were a visitor on this board, I would not take this forum seriously.

I've been active on different kinds of forums, including different artists boards.
A growing and fun topic on those boards recently is the bashing of Anime and its fan base.
Most of these artists are not that familiar with anime and only experience what the fan base does. Sadly to say they only see and read about squealing fan girls drooling over male cartoon characters. You will not believe the ridicule that anime and it's fans have to endure there.
I'm almost ashamed to admit there I love anime and that I'm an anime artist. Which royally pisses me off because anime is so much more than that.

Maybe I'm taking this way too far, and what I said about anime being bashed is not directly relevant to this thread, but I hate to think that the girls from Beta would ever be placed in the same category as those silly fan girls who spend their entire online time doing nothing else then squeal about guys made out of ink and (digital) paint.
Simply because in my opinion the girls from Beta are too intelligent for that.

But fuck…what do I know right?
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Baakay
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Post by Baakay »

Ooo. Reality check time.

klet wrote:I think that we are considering two very different types of productions here.

I took it seriously for what it was--a way to capitilize on Bleach fandom.
And do you seriously think anyone else here is not intelligent enough to realize that? Give me... a break.

Of COURSE it was a way to capitalize on fandom. But they gave it their best shot-- it was so obvious that they wanted this to be a good production. They fell short. That's the extent of it.

klet wrote: I thought that I made it quite clear that I am tone-deaf.
Yes, you did make that clear. AFTER you pooh-poohed my statements. Which made the conversation roll something like this, if you paraphrase it:

me: why did the singing have to suck so badly.
you: oh you're just being an old poop, lighten up.
me: but it sucked.
you: oh yeah and btw I'm tone deaf. I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, really.

klet wrote: (I'm not mad--I promise)
I am.

Sorry, everyone else. I really enjoyed digging into this show with you. It was a blast.
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Post by vapalla »

As a person who as a child had to listen to every Rogers and Hammerstein musical over and over, I have developed an extreme dislike of musicals. I would never have downloaded this thing if it wasn't for my daughter really wanting to see her favorite characters come to life. I never expected the production to be high quality and I still think "cute" is a pretty good accessment. I suspect the show was created for teen-aged girls like my kid, and I mostly posted her reactions to the show. I think that the show was mostly a fun romp for both actors and their audience.


As for the "drool factor" at Beta, well, women are supposed to settle down and raise kids and be serious. Men are allowed to oogle until they are in the grave. I think women should be allowed to have some fun joking about nice looking guys now and then. It is easiest (and fun) to joke around about guys that are actually not real. Bleach, Saiyuki, and Weis are very guy-heavy shows and threads on them have been the main venues for this activity. I don't see this as especially harmful, in fact it may serve as a release valve to people who are usually working very hard completing their college degree or working a tedious or difficult job every day and come home to yet more tedious work. There are often serious discussions going on here as well. I'm not especally into the "drool buckets" -it makes me think too much of that Monty Python film... but I have had fun reading many of the goofy posts and I would hate for it all to dissapear because people feel they have to act serious here all the time for fear they are becoming an embarrassment to Otakudom.. I mean, where would we all be without an occasional good laugh from Aernath?

Uende wrote:
A growing and fun topic on those boards recently is the bashing of Anime and its fan base.
Most of these artists are not that familiar with anime and only experience what the fan base does. Sadly to say they only see and read about squealing fan girls drooling over male cartoon characters. You will not believe the ridicule that anime and it's fans have to endure there.
I have to say as a person who went through a lot of art school (I have a Masters degree), it is traditional to bash just about everything to build yourself up in a field which is solely judged by what you just did last and what you are about to do next. Artists are a very insecure lot. If ignorant people wish to bash what they don't really understand or even want to understand, then that is their problem isn't it? Yeah, there are a lot of gushing fan girls and otaku guys with collections of little girls figurines, but there are also people who seriously respect the work of such talented artists and directors as Mamoru Oshii, Range Murata, Satoshi Kon and Yoshitoshi Abe as well as the many lesser known but truely talented people who produce so much amazing artwork. Most of the people on Beta fall into the latter category, even if they sometimes like to post as if they are in the former. I started collecting cels because I couldn't believe the quality of the artwork and the amazing talent that shone from everything from serious movies to children's shows. I myself feel priviledged to be able to own some actual pieces of this art and I suspect many here feel the same. Is this work not as good as that of some of the people on these art forums? I suspect that the most vocal there WISH they were half as good. I have noticed that the artists with the biggest mouths were often the weakest artists. Don't be taken in by their bluster.

Uende, you seem to be very passionate about this subject. I'm going to suggest to you what every faculty adviser has said to me- if something illicits a passionate reaction from you, you need to channel it into your art. I don't know about what training you have had or if you are completely self taught, but you have an eye for line and color and amazing talent. I think you have real potential to do even more than you currently do. I don't know what form it should take but I really hope you push your boundries further.

Baakay wrote:
But ... I have pondered this a bit more today and realized something. You all have no way to know that I'm not just tooting my own horn about having a lengthy music background, training and a keen ear.
If you would like to make a tape demonstrating your ability, I'm sure we can find a way of putting it on the internet! Actually I believe you. My brother is the same way. Even though I am not on his level, I could tell that the singing was often off too. Having to dance doesn't help. That is one reason singers have been known to lip-synch at concerts.


Boy, I hope I didn't offend anyone with any part of this! This thread has had me bothered since yesterday, though, and I couldn't help myself anymore.
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klet
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Post by klet »

Uende wrote:What I am still failing to understand however; why attack someone who's making an honest review about something, who pointed out the flaws and not just "loved and enjoyed" everything about it just because the guys are so cute. Why feel the need to ‘defend’ something while it wasn’t under attack anyway?
Why lash out if some notice things you do not? If you are not capable of something, but someone else is because of semi-professional experience, why not just believe that person then and take their word for it, instead of feeling the need to counterattack with not so friendly, obvious irritable remarks, especially if that person is someone you know and someone you know not to sprout bullshit?
I never meant to attack, and I didn't realized that I was. I did and do take everyone's word that the singing was bad. I never said it wasn't.

Would someone please point out to me where I attacked anyone? I'm not saying that in my defense--if you guys say that I did, then I did. I just want to know where it is so I can make it right. I hate fighting, and I hate the way this thread turned out. I'll admit that I was angry, and I felt that I had been personally attacked, so I did speak my mind much more than usual in that last post. So please show me exactly where it is so I can fix it.

I'm sorry about my posts--they tend to be a mix of serious and goofy. I did seriously mention some things about the musical, but perhaps they didn't register when followed up by drooling? From now on I'll try to limit myself to one emotion per post.

Regardless of what I think right now, I'm just going to drop it. I'm honestly and truly sorry. I wasn't trying to be irritable, or attack, but if you read it that way, then I was irritable and I did attack. That's the beauty and curse of the written word.

Once again, I am really, truly sorry.
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Post by Gonzai »

Thanks everyone for saying your apologies and what not,
but I have had enough of this thread. Before things go any
further, topic locked. :?
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