Interesting Commentary

[JWR]

In Today's paper (8/18/2006) I found an iteresting commentary piece that deals with animation & Voice acting.

Animation Speaks For Itself

By Chris Kaltenbach

When did it become so all-fire important that big-name movie stars provide the voices for animated features?
Trailers for the upcoming "Open Season" the story of a domesticated bear that suddenly finds himself living in the wild, proudly proclaim that it stars Martin Lawrence , Ashton Kutcher , Debra Messing and Gary Sinise. But does it really?
Doesn't it really star the talents of the film's animators, the men and women who designed the characters , mapped out their actions and anthropomorphized all the critters? True, computers do much of the work nowadays, but some human has to tell them what to do. They're the real stars, not the big name voices.
How important is the reputation of those voice actors? Is "Bambi" any less of a movie because few people can name the boy who provided the voice? The 8-year old's name was Donnie Dunagan.
It's hard to avoid the feeling that big names are often hired to help gloss over the film's deficiencies, the idea that Julia Roberts' fans will flock to see "The Ant Bully" (shes the voice of motherly ant Hova) reguardless of the movies qualities.
Let's not forget the some of the greatest voices in animation history were provided by the people whose names rarely found their way onto the marquee. Mel Blanc was Bugs Bunny , Daffy Duck , Foghorn Leghorn and just about everyone else in the Looney Tunes canon, and yet no one ever shoved his name to the forefront.
A good animated film shouldn't need such pumping-up. Nothing wrong with having bg name talent do voices - imagine anyone other than Tom Hanks and Tim Allen in "Toy Story" - but let's not overdo things. Loudly proclaiming that an animated feature stars anyone seems an overstatement.

(Chis Kaltenbach is a film critic at the Baltimore Sun , a Tribune company)


I aggree with this commentary and can see what he is talking about in the english VA's hired by Disney to do the dub on the Miyazaki's films. Disney attempted to market the Actor's & Actress's as a selling point rather than the fact that the works are masterpieces by one of the greatest animation directors of all time.

[frozentime]

I was very happy when they actually tried to match some of the voice actors to the sound of original cast in Spirited Away. Not that I listen to it in English, but it was finally a movie I didn't mint loaning to, or watching, with people who would listen to it English. There was finally some attempt to capture the original spirit. That was a big step up from Disney's previous attempts.

[wELCOME cONSUMER]

I think the article is referring to American productions relying on American
"star power" and name recognition in the casting. Not so much American
dubs of Japanese productions. The actors that were chosen for the Japanese
productions were appropriate choices. If you watch the documentaries on
the Buena Vista/Disney releases of the Studio Ghibli titles, you'll see John
Lasseter enthusiastically talking about the process.

The choices for the Japanese titles were not the same caliber as the homebrew
productions. You have to remember that the voice recording takes place about
3-4 years before the movie is even released. Ashton Kutcher and Debra
Messing were popular names 4 years ago (not so much now...). With the
Japanese productions, "big name stars" are not a financially sound option.
Instead, they opt to choose appropriate, talented actors that are still
recognizable. And why not? Don't we all have a favorite actor or voice actor?
On top of which, some traditional actors have proved their mettle while
in the recording booth.

Here are some highlights from the Studio Ghibli canon...

Mark Hamill as Muska in Castle in the Sky.
Keith David as Okkoto in Princess Mononoke.
Christian Bale as Howl in Howl's Moving Castle.
Tim Curry as the Cat King in The Cat Returns.
Patrick Stewart as Lord Yupa in Nausicaa.
Kirsten Dunst as Kiki in Kiki's Delivery Service.
Jason Marsden as Haku in Spirited Away.

The inclusion of Jean Simmons and Lauren Bacall in Howl's Moving Castle
was pure class on the part of Disney. And these were just some minor
highlights. There were many more to choose from, even some surprising
performances, like James van der Beek's in Laputa. Like the guy or not,
he did a good job. The casts of these productions were littered with veteran
voice acting staples as well, such as Susan Egan, Rene Auberjonois,
Matt Miller and others. No one can honestly claim Tim Curry is a "big name
star," but he has a distinct voice and acting style.

I agree with the article. Disney isn't the only studio guilty of this practice either.
But I don't think the author is refering to Disney's handling of the Ghibli films.
In those cases, I think they hit a bull's eye. The dubs were well written
and well acted. They pushed some actors to new levels.

The fact that these productions are imported makes them a lower priority
than Disney's own properties, which works in their favor. That's why
they are actually superior to some of Disney's contemporary voice
acting cast selections. Uma Thurman's and Minnie Driver's performances
still blow me away.

Trivia: The first Disney production to feature a really big star was
Robin Williams as the Genie in Aladdin. After that was Lion King...
the rest is history.

[RoboFlonne]

I loved Robin Williams in Aladin!

He was great... I mean I would have loved to see Robin Williams in a Genie suit... But his voice really lit up the character!


I personally wouldn't mind some celebrities voice acting the Roles of Japanese Animation.

It would be really good publicity and marketing. And probably would appeal to a bigger Audience then if you used unknown VA's


If there is one thing that we do better in the USA then those in Japan... It would be our marketing techniques.

[Naga]

Im so happy to see people finally giving credit where credit is do.!! It s not about the actors but the artist and Computer Animators.. I am a friend of shampoo's and went to the same college as her. Ringling School of Art and Design Top Animation School out there... My roomates were CA's a.k.a Computer Animators.. They spent over a 1yr 1/2 making storys and character designs and finally an animation.... oh by the it was only 2min worth.... Alot of work and time go's out just for 2 min of animation and a lot of sleepless nights... My roomates who were great at the computer would be in the labs from 8am to 2am 7 days aweek... Which is just amazing!:o

[JWR]

Yes the article did focus on American films but what I was talking about with the Miyazaki films was not the choice of actors who did a good job on the dub but instead Disney's advertizing that made it seem that the chosen actors were more important than the actual animation.

From the writeup on Princess Mononoke:
"Claire Danes (The Mod Squad) , Minnie Driver (Good Will Hunting) and Billy Bob Thornton (Armageddon , Sling Blade) head a cast of hot Hollywood stars who lend their talents to this exquisitely animated , overwhelmingly acclaimed adventure epic! Inflicted with a deadly curse, a young warrior named Ashitaka (Billy Crudup - Without Limits) sets out to the forests of the west in search of a cure that will save his life. Once there , he becomes inextricably entangled in a bitter battle that matches Lady Eboshi (Driver) and a proud clan of humans against the forests animal Gods who are lead by the brave Princess Mononoke (Danes) a young woman raised by wolves! Also starring Gillian Anderson (X-files) and Jada Pinkett Smith (Scream 2), this monumental struggle between man and nature will have you transfixed with amazement as stunnibg artistry blends with epic storytelling to create a uniquely entertaining motion picture!"

Not one mention of Miyazaki or Studio Ghibli. Now in Disney's defence they later came out with a new package and 2 disc set that only praised Miyazaki but this was only after Spirited Away won the Oscar for best animated feature.

[wELCOME cONSUMER]

Princess Mononoke was a spectacular failure at the US box office, as are most
theatrical releases of imported animation (there are few exceptions). The
reputation of Studio Ghibli was virtually nonexistence to the average
American movie goer in 1997. Disney was smart to push the voice line-up
at that time because the mention of "Miyazaki" wouldn't do any good.
There's simply not enough anime fan dollars to support a major release.
You have to market to the non-anime fans. You have to have a hook.

Most movie write-ups look exactly like the one you just provided
(animated, live-action, whatever). Part of the draw will always be from
who is involved in the film (actors, for whatever reasons, are billable).
It takes longer for a director or even a writer to become billable. You don't
hear much about Neil Gaiman's involvement in the writing of Princess Mononoke.

One person's contribution should not be eclipsed by another's and the
true connoisseurs can appreciate the entire production team (I sit thru
the credits of every movie, even the bad ones). But when you're marketing
a movie, you cannot run 100's of names on the screen. Especially names
you've never heard of. That wouldn't make a very good teaser. Thus,
the actors are shoved to the forefront. If that had been a trailer for the
film, you'd witness the gorgeous animation which speaks for itself. The
respects are paid to the animators in the featurettes (provided you bother
to watch the extras on the DVD releases). Even then, you don't get to
hear from every single person who worked on the feature. That is an
impossible task. Ultimately, any group effort as massive as a film is a
thankless job. But that's why they receive paychecks and a notational credit.
Most artists know they will not receive critical acclaim or proper recognition
for their efforts, this isn't a new phenomenon.

Miyazaki's films don't do well because they are 2-D. American audiences
only accept 2-D animation for TV series. Not for movies. Hence the
flood of 3-D animated crap.

Part of what Disney tries to do now is what Pixar originated: hiring comedians.
I don't think Disney quite nails it the way Pixar does tho (Tom Hanks and
Tim Allen are big names, but they are comedians and that's part of
why Toy Story worked so well.)

Of course Disney releases the 2 disc Princess Mononoke after Spirited
Away won the Academy Award. Miyazaki became a name average movie
goers recognized, which made him a billable mention. Then, he eclipses the
actors involved. They had to strike while the iron was hot. The world wide
attention of winning that award instantly made his canon hotter.

On another note, where's the article dealing with Asian cinema and their
pushing big name actors? I know voice actors have their own followings,
just like regular actors do. When creating an anime series or movie, it's
common to hire a popular voice actor in Japan. I don't really see much
difference between our cultures in that regard.

[JWR]

For some reason WC you seem to wish to go out of your way to be argumentative when all I put forth was an example to illustrait the kind of advertising that has been used in the past which has been something that has irked many anime fans (myself included).

The Reason most do not know of Neil Gaiman's work on Princess Mononoke is that he purposely does not mention it for he feels he did not do Miyazaki justice with his rewrite due to interference from Disney. Neil is a close friend of Maria & mine.

As far as your question about articles on the Japanese market and the marketing of Japanese voice actors , feel free to supply any such articles you wish in a different post for the discussion here was only about an opinion I found interesting discussing the fact that animation studios in the USA feel that they must have only "real actors" voice the characters or the movie will be a flop and that in this commentator's opinion the real "stars" were the animators & character designers and the writer who makes or breaks the movie via the story.

[wELCOME cONSUMER]

I agree with the article.

[urabob]

Yes the article did focus on American films but what I was talking about with the Miyazaki films was not the choice of actors who did a good job on the dub but instead Disney's advertizing that made it seem that the chosen actors were more important than the actual animation.

Blame the marketing department for that. It's their job to sell it to people who don't have a desire to see it. This is not a new concept in regards to movies or most things.

Not one mention of Miyazaki or Studio Ghibli. Now in Disney's defence they later came out with a new package and 2 disc set that only praised Miyazaki but this was only after Spirited Away won the Oscar for best animated feature.

Well yeah, that's common too. If a movie wins an Oscar, it gets a sticker or some label on the cover. It is a common practice from every studio and not just Disney. Oscar win equals marketing angle.

If anything, I think Disney has done a fantastic job with the handling of the Miyazaki product line. They package it well and give it a decent push. If this were not the case, Disney would not be allowed to continue their work. Considering, how badly 2D animation performs in the domestic market... this is a minor miracle.

WC was not being argumentative, just informative.

[Gonzai]

Doesn't it really star the talents of the film's animators, the men and women who designed the characters , mapped out their actions and anthropomorphized all the critters? True, computers do much of the work nowadays, but some human has to tell them what to do. They're the real stars, not the big name voices.

Let's not forget the some of the greatest voices in animation history were provided by the people whose names rarely found their way onto the marquee.

I agree with JWR here. I don't see a problem with pushing
the voice actors to an extent, but I think what JWR and the
writer of this article is getting at, is that at what point does the
animators get the recognition that they deserve??

I read this right after JWR posted, and thought to myself that
the writer of this article is absolutely right - there should be
more recognition for the animators - as that is techincally
what its all about.

Am I the only one to see this besides JWR?? No one said don't
give the actors the the credit they have due, but lets also give the
creators the recognition they deserve for making this beautiful
animation come to life.

[Caroline]

hmmm...

after knowing a few (well-known) voice actors personally, and watching them put their talents to work... all i can say is that if they are right for the part, then that's all there is to it. i haven't seen some of the films in question, but i have definitely noticed the trend in animated films casting high profile voices. im sure a lot of it has to do with studios assuming higher ticket sales. sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesnt. but i do know there are directors who seek out high-profile actors simply because they have a unique voice.

it sounds like the writer of this article has a problem with the marketing of animated films, rather than the actual productions.

[Caroline]

I am a friend of shampoo's and went to the same college as her. Ringling School of Art and Design Top Animation School out there... My roomates were CA's a.k.a Computer Animators..

i went to ringling too! wow, what a small world... PM me

[Krafty]

I don't see a problem with pushing the voice actors to an extent, but I think what JWR and the writer of this article is getting at, is that at what point does the animators get the recognition that they deserve?...
Am I the only one to see this besides JWR?

No, I also agree with that article- thanks for posting it, Joe.
Don't forget that many of the creatives that made the production do get articles and credits in other mediums like the specialist CGI at and animation journals etc. They're not forgotten by thoese who care about this process.

It's just that we are continually subjected to general marketing directed at 'the masses' which focus on promoting things/celebrities, something tangible that the majority of people can relate to.

I'm sure we all understand why the companies do that.

Personally I'm not too interested in the voices but I look at the pictures, listen out for sound effects, music and appreciate the story.

I believe that emphasis on the voice acting is always misplaced.

[sugarcels]

I've always thought that sometimes studios care so much about what stars they can get to voice characters that they don't focus on stories and setting - who cares if Drew Barrymore is so-and-so if nothing makes sense? That's my opinion. It may be to some people, but voices are NOT a selling point for me (unless they were, say, John Stewart - and I still didn't see Doogle ).