I've been wondering...

hyelakingsfan · Post by **hyelakingsfan** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:44 pm

....why, in some cartoons, they say extra words before or after the character's names? Such as Naruto: naruto-kun, sakura-chan, sakura-san or Dragonball: Son Goku or when they say super saiyan jin?

Keropi · Post by **Keropi** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:14 pm

They're sort of like titles. They show one person relates to the other on different levels. You use those different suffixes to imply if someone is more experienced than you are or a different level above or below you. They also imply the type of relationship you have with one another (strangers, enemies, friends, relatives).

If you notice in anime sometimes when someone wants to tick off the other person they use the wrong suffix (or they use the rude version of the word "you").

That's why I'm very interested in hearing these suffixes even if they aren't in the subtitles because I gain so much meaning just from hearing the characters say them. The "suffixes" are especially meaningful in romance anime because they reveal a lot of stuff going on between the characters.

Baakay · Post by **Baakay** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:15 pm

Oooo! Oooo! I even know what this is.

Most of what you listed are honorifics, something like our titles "Mr." or "Ma'am." The real difference as I understand it is that you are not allowed to address someone by just their given name unless they allow you to and you are at a VERY intimate level of trust and respect with each other!! There are different levels of honorific, from the "chan" that you might use with someone your age or younger, to "sama" or "dono" that are for people who rank much higher than you.

We used to have similar rules in this country, in that it was considered extremely rude for a child to address an adult by anything other than his family name and "Mr." ; and almost as rude to address someone your own age by first name unless you were given permission. Obviously that's not the case here now....

Um, I'm not a DBZ expert by any stretch of the imagination but for some reason I thought "Son" was a family name. Way off?

Keropi · Post by **Keropi** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:28 pm

Yeah -san is the normal honorific.

-chan is mostly for high school girls and younger, but sometimes for boys maybe fourth grade or younger. In most situations you wouldn't want to call a boy -chan when he gets to be too old because it implies that he's still a little kid. Sometimes adult women are called -chan, but usually you'd only call them that if you know them well and/or maybe are joking around with them (or being rude to them for that matter). Sometimes girls in anime (usually the "overly" cute girl characters) call a guy -chan as sort of a term of endearment or as some form of forced familiarity with a guy, but I don't know how much of that relates to real-life.

-sama is extremely rarely used in real life, but anime is usually not similar to real life.

It's a term of great respect used for someone above you. In anime -sama is usually used to address people like emperors, lords, princesses or maybe one of the big boss leaders in the anime. lol

-dono is a very old honorific, but used a lot in anime even during the modern age by characters like Motoko in Love Hina and what's-her-name in Mahou Sensei Negima. If it's used by an anime character it implies the character saying it is sort of an "ancient-traditional" type person. I don't think this is used by people in current, real-life Japan (not even in dojos).

-kun might be used to those you work with or go to school with that are on the same level as you. Or it's said to those below you like your subordinates at work or your subordinates in the military. If you want to disrespect your boss at work be sure to call them "boss's name-kun" (unless you're out drinking with them or something silly like that.

)

-sempai might be said to an upperclassman at school or to someone from your job with more years of experience than you. At any rate...it's usually said to someone with more "experience" at something than you.

For normal purposes "Family name-san" is the most formal. I think it's for people you don't know very well at all (or if you only want to talk them them in a formal fashion). Then comes "Family name" by itself for people you probably know at least somewhat (or maybe they're on a level below you so it doesn't make much of a difference). Then comes "personal name-san" which I think would be used if you know the person at least fairly well (maybe very well). Just using a person's "personal name" by itself implies you're either a close relative (brother, sister, father, mother, sometimes others) or they're your spouse, about to get married to them or you're very close to them.

But from what I understand though, young people in Japan are less formal than they were perviously. So honorifics are used more loosely than they were before. Certainly less formally than they were during Maison Ikkoku's anime/manga heyday period of the 1980's. So for all I know they might be calling each other by their personal names (without the -san) simply because they are half-decent friends with each other. I have no idea.

EDIT:

I forgot to say something. Sometimes the use of honorifics in anime changes because of where the anime/manga story takes place. Sometimes if the story does not take place in a "somewhat real-life Japan" sometimes they don't use honorifics in the same way or drop them altogether to make the story feel more "out-of-country" or "other-worldly" and/or more accurate to the region where it's supposed to take place (such as if the story is in a Western country that doesn't use honorifics).

backlotanimation · Post by **backlotanimation** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:13 pm

Thanks for the great info Keropi-Sama.
I learned something today that I always wanted to know.
Thanks for the post.
Roy

Remi · Post by **Remi** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:48 pm

Keropi summed it up really well. Just wanted to add on the last two DBZ things. I'm not a DBZ expert but I'm pretty sure Son is the family name as Baakay Suggested. In Japan, if you are addressing someone by their full name, it's surname first, and first name after. So Son Goku, Son Gohan, etc are just the last names of each and the first name.

As for the jin in Saiyan-jin, it's the suffix pronunciation for people. So the actual translation would be the Saiyan-people. A more colloquial translation might be Saiyanmen though, sort of like how we might call a mythical race lizardmen or apemen. Since Saiyan isn't a word, I guess the translators felt it was best to simply call the race that word alone, thus the Saiyans, and instead of going Super-Saiyanman, he just goes Super-Saiyan.

Hope that made sense.

Baakay · Post by **Baakay** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:39 am

Remi wrote:As for the jin in Saiyan-jin, it's the suffix pronunciation for people.

Oho!!! Another neat little tidbit of information! Thanks, Remi!

backlotanimation · Post by **backlotanimation** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:47 am

Thanks Remi-Dono for a few more brain cels added to my mind,All of us Beta-jin could use more info like this posted here.
Thanks,
Roy

hyelakingsfan · Post by **hyelakingsfan** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:53 pm

OOO, i see. Thanks for all the information ladies and gentlemen. It really helped. I would always get confused when i heard it and it got to the point where i had to ask

and im glad i did. Thanks again my nice people