Hakuoki Episodes 19 & 20 (or 6 & 7) whichever

Gonzai · Post by **Gonzai** » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:12 pm

WARNING: EXTREME SPOILERS. IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED THIS
YET, THEN DO NOT READ IT.

Kizu is right, they are definately following history, however:

To take out 4 of the main characters in two episodes
was totally flippin bizarre for me. Unless I am wrong, and
Kizu please feel free to correct me:

1 - Kondo - dead, beheaded.
2 - Okita - dead, tuberculosis (I cried like a baby)
3 - Sano - dead, gun shot wounds (though they never show him that
way, it is to be assumed if following history correctly).
4 - Saito - gone with the Aizu Shinsengumi to fight elsewhere.

So does this mean we are stuck with just Hijikata and Chizuru??
Granted we still have Heisuke and Yaminami, but crap, there are
still 5 episodes left. @_@

jenn-b · Post by **jenn-b** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:48 am

UGH!!!! I haven't watched it yet...why oh why did I read your post?!?!?!

Totally kidding. Haven't watched yet and did not read. I just wanted to rant too!

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:53 am

I haven't seen anything after 18, but, seeing how they are going the historical route, that means that only Saito & Nagakura are going to be left standing at the end of the series.

Since there's always been an abundance of OP/ED Chizuru/Hijikata pics, it seemed likely that they'd push those two together. But...if they do kill off Hijikata, then, the best option would be for Chizuru to end up with Shinpachi. She'd work quite well into his history (Shinpachi ends up marrying into the Sugimura family, amongst who were several doctors that served a daimyo.)

I probably shouldn't have read about them on Wikipedia...

kizu · Post by **kizu** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:25 pm

I agree about the pacing of the story... That's what I truly mean by it being harassed but considering how closely the characterizations are all tied and destiny much more so, I'm not sure if it would've been wise to have dragged screentime for the characters. Logically it does make sense to me.

1) Kondou's demise and Hijikata's reaction to it was classic spot on - I cried like crazy coz I really really love Kondou and I love his relationship with Hijikata
2) Okita was right to die right after - in fact I love the fact that they allowed him to die with a certain grace instead of following what history says that he died in bed after trying to kill a black cat that he thought was bad luck... His love for Kondou is probably well founded (which is why I applaud the show for letting this happen instead of letting Okita become a HIjikata idolizer - which is pretty standard in most other Shinsengumi stories)
3) I too liked the way they handled Sano's death because in the storyline there really wasn't much he could do later on and following history, yeah he's supposed to die (or at least disappear during the Ueno war)
4) I love this Saitou - I like his character design, his characterization.. however I don't like his treatment or execution in the story. I always felt that they had a hard time handling his storyline because on one hand he's vastly popular in Japan and on another hand his storylines aren't really as dramatic especially since the show is following Hijikata's storyline so we don't even see him become Rasetsu (yet?), his passion is hard to show in the story and his character really is a well controlled one. He almost seems untouchable which alienates him in the story somewhat. There is one thing I am glad for however... The show had decided NOT to take the unconfirmed (but widely dramatized/sensationalized) fall out between Saitou and Hijikata w/ Ootori due to leaving Aizu behind after it looks like Aizu is losing. Current historical data disputes this fall out due to logistics/timing and there is a good chance Saitou was left behind because he was thought of to be dead along with the few Shinsengumi men he took with him to provide back up support. It's too long for me to explain but I'm glad the story seems to have favored the "new theories" rather than the old one.

5 episodes left isn't a lot I think..
I wouldn't be surprised if Heisuke and Yamanami goes away on the same episode...
The next episode would probably be their relocation to Goryokaku in Hokkaido and meeting with Enamoto (another favorite of mine- you probably would know him as the badly maligned villain in Bakumatsu Ironha)
I also would give an episode to Shimada Kai and the establishment of Republic of Ezo
I would give 2 episodes to Hijikata's demise and Chizuru's goodbye - I am kind of betting to see some of the dead characters come back (whether they are truly dead, or maybe will pull a Fushigi Yuugi or just do some sort of "special")
So that would be 5 episodes...

Gonzai · Post by **Gonzai** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:30 pm

I agree with some of your reasoning Kizu, however,
if they were going to kill them all off in the end, then why
did they keep Yamanami and Heisuke around after they
should have actually died.

I mean why keep them around in the first season, if they are
just going to follow history and kill everyone off in the second
season?? And, they way they both were killed off in this last
episode - just to lay down and disappear? I don't know, seems
like they were reaching.

I like the idea of doing an episode devoted to Shimida Kai,
however, I am wondering if they will, since they basically
ignored him the first season. I am going to assume that it
will all lead up to the big fight between Chikage and Hijikata
from this point forward.

I have to say, though, what has put me off the most this
season has been Chizuru. She is so totally worthless.

duotrouble · Post by **duotrouble** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:48 pm

My turn to rant. YAY!

I think that

they should all be killed off at the end so no third season will be possible. I enjoyed the first season but haven't at all the second season. I keep asking myself WHY? Why do I keep watching?! The only answer is bishies. I've pretty much stopped reading the subs and just watching the images go by. I'm determined to make it through these 12 episodes but any more after that and it's dropped.

YAY! End rant!

I'm so happy to have that off my chest now.

Oh! And

Chizuru is totally worthless. I hate female characters like her.

teggacat · Post by **teggacat** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:29 pm

duotrouble wrote:My turn to rant. YAY! I think that
they should all be killed off at the end so no third season will be possible. I enjoyed the first season but haven't at all the second season. I keep asking myself WHY? Why do I keep watching?! The only answer is bishies. I've pretty much stopped reading the subs and just watching the images go by. I'm determined to make it through these 12 episodes but any more after that and it's dropped.
YAY! End rant! I'm so happy to have that off my chest now.

Oh! And
Chizuru is totally worthless. I hate female characters like her.

awww man, it's just great to see you still lurking about DT!!

oh and as far as Hakuouki, I'm so wayyyy behind, still chugging
through season1

but I am quite aware of the Shinsengumi saga,
so I'm quite pleased to hear it does follow history somewhat anyhoo
[yes i read the spoilers

]

kizu · Post by **kizu** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:05 pm

I think that's the whole story of the Shinsengumi or rather usual story of the Shinsengumi... That their lives were short and transient and the falling sakura motif of the show is very symbolic of that and of samurai lives (romanticized at least). The Shinsengumi weren't your usual lot of the time, they were rebels to their clan and master, and tried not to concede but as is, there was no running from their fate nor the changing of the times. Part of the charm is their tenacity with against a force now much larger than themselves, but they hold onto their ideals to the end even if the end is obvious (LOL... Reminds me of RK Saitou during the Usui fight). That's why I find the opening song very apt as well "More than living a thousand lives, I'd like to live strong in this moment". I understand this may turn some people off but for me, I find it faithful so it's hard for me to fault the story for the way it's going... In fact I might find fault in it if they all lived happily ever after. I might even find it odd if Hijikata and Chizuru live happily afterwards as well. I still think everyone in the Shinsengumi is going to have an end (except for Chizuru who really isn't Shinsengumi). Now one can say that there were survivors in history but it is also known that they tried to change their identities and went in hiding. The actual person, Saitou actually would tell his kids that he's always on alert because the Shinsengumi had many enemies. Kind of sad but true.

duotrouble · Post by **duotrouble** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:56 pm

uchiha615 wrote:awww man, it's just great to see you still lurking about DT!!

Thanks!

Yeah, I've had a rough couple of weeks but I'm still lurking around somewhere.

Oh, another mini rant, I need more Sasuke! Ah! Better!

Okay, kizu, I'm calling you out. Yes, my trouble maker days are back . . . well, today at least.

I understand that you appreciate it following history, etc. For me, that doesn't matter because I don't expect tv series/movies to follow true history. I expect them to embelish to make stories more interesting. (That's what "based on" means.) So I get your excitement there.

I just can't understand how you're not even touching on the whole vampire angle. That's what ticked me off about the series. If all that wasn't there, I'd be loving the story even though I don't know a thing about the Shinsengumi. They talked about the in Kenshin. That's the extent of my knowledge. And please, that's not an opening for a lecture about them because quite frankly I don't care who they were. It's not interesting to me otherwise I would have researched them after watching Kenshin. I just want to understand how you can forgive that vampire angle.

Gonzai · Post by **Gonzai** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:51 pm

duotrouble wrote:I just want to understand how you can forgive that vampire angle.

Allow me to answer that question, as I believe I am the expert on this subject:

Chikage is smokin hot!

Need I say more?

kizu · Post by **kizu** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:58 pm

duotrouble wrote:Okay, kizu, I'm calling you out. Yes, my trouble maker days are back . . . well, today at least. I understand that you appreciate it following history, etc. For me, that doesn't matter because I don't expect tv series/movies to follow true history. I expect them to embelish to make stories more interesting. (That's what "based on" means.) So I get your excitement there.

I just can't understand how you're not even touching on the whole vampire angle. That's what ticked me off about the series. If all that wasn't there, I'd be loving the story even though I don't know a thing about the Shinsengumi. They talked about the in Kenshin. That's the extent of my knowledge. And please, that's not an opening for a lecture about them because quite frankly I don't care who they were. It's not interesting to me otherwise I would have researched them after watching Kenshin. I just want to understand how you can forgive that vampire angle.

Honestly I don't understand what the problem is. I was just trying to explain how I view the show but certainly have no desire nor inclination to push my views onto anyone else. I like to share what I can, not demand anyone's attention or submission. I have my own gripes about the show but my post isn't about gripes but what I like about it (otherwise it would be a complete waste of my time to watch). Sorry I didn't even read what you had posted so my answer was not in response to yours. I'm only replying here since my response to this thread seems to have raised your ire. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Ja...

Gonzai · Post by **Gonzai** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:02 pm

I like my response better Kizu!!

kizu · Post by **kizu** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:08 pm

Gonzai wrote:I like my response better Kizu!!

Ah I know.

It's okay. I'm a virgin on such things. Nitey!

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:14 am

Gonzai wrote:Allow me to answer that question, as I believe I am the expert on this subject:

Chikage & Hijikata are smokin hot!

Need I say more?

Fixed for truth

Yes...I find Chizuru incredibly worthless and a let down. I got all excited when the second season OP showed her with a sword, thinking, great...she's finally going to do something & save the studs. But, no...nothing.

Meh...I'm all for trashing the plot and having a fanservice episode. Maybe a flashback episode where the boys find a vacant pond, strip to their skivies and Chikage tries to be King of the Mountain... :flasher:

duotrouble · Post by **duotrouble** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:44 pm

Gonzai wrote:
duotrouble wrote:I just want to understand how you can forgive that vampire angle.
Allow me to answer that question, as I believe I am the expert on this subject:

Chikage is smokin hot!

Need I say more?

Sorry, Saito is more my type.

And didn't I say I was watching without all those annoying subs?

And kizu . . .

kizu wrote:Honestly I don't understand what the problem is.

Yeah, Gonzai understands my sense of humor. You realize I'm not upset AT ALL. I'm curious. I think it's awesome that you're all about the history. That's not my thing for anime. I breeze over your posts. But I find it interesting that since you love the history part so much what you think about the oni angle. So I went back through your posts and couldn't find anything about it. Hence, why I gave you my question, which still stands unanswered btw.