Where do your anime DVDs come from?

[Keys]

Some people have mentioned that they don't want to pay for an English dub that they don't watch. I'm not a dub fan either, but to each his own. However, I believe that if anything, the bilingual R1s have brought down the price for us sub fans. It's a supply and demand issue. For years, the dub VHS were always less expensive than the sub VHS. When Software Sculptors tried making the dub and sub the same price (dropping the sub), they found they really lost out money wise. Now, sub fans have the more numerous dub fans (we don't run into them as often being the harder core, but they do outnumber us for average buyers) upping the sales for them, prices have gone down for the sub fans.

Yeah, I also hate 4Kids. On some boards I read, they're also known as 'the worst possible thing that could happen.' Many of my friends at conventions are constantly bugging Funimation to bug them to get the rights for an uncut subbed version. We can only hope and keep bugging and show that there's a market for them to do this. (Funimation hasn't been perfect, but when they've gone the bilingual route like with Blue Gender and Fruits Basket, they've been quite good .)

[oion]

Frankly, anyone who (knowingly) buys illegal bootlegs doesn't deserve to own cels. It's not a "right" to have anime, it's both a consumer privilege to own and a creator right to payment. It's a consumer privilege because it's based on market forces and income but controlled by international law, and it's a creator right because they did all the work in actually making the things. How can you bootleg copies of the full product yet lay claim on the production pieces and basically not pay the creator (who usually never see income from cels anyway)? The whole thing reeks of hypocrisy unless you happen to collect photocopied cels.

The bootleg makers are merely parasites on the entire entertainment industry, and that goes for the middlemen selling over here. Many anime buyers probably fall into the trap not realizing that the items are blackmarket, or they don't take to heart that the tremendous work and creative energy going into making new anime (or any new creation) deserve to be paid; it's their jobs. I'll watch fansubs myself when something isn't available in the US yet, but I won't keep the fansubs when I like the show a lot and intend on getting the real thing anyway.

I like buying R1s and never listen to the dubs anyway - it's cheaper than VHS sub, certainly, for the purists (agreeing completely with Keys...). And there are several places that have legitimate anime at cheap prices if you know where to look. DeepDiscountDVD.com often has highly discounted DVDs; RightStuf.com has weekly specials where you can get DVDs and bundles up to 50% off. etc. Smart shopping. And Google is your friend if you don't know if something is legit.

[Pomidor]

I'll watch fansubs myself when something isn't available in the US yet, but I won't keep the fansubs when I like the show a lot and intend on getting the real thing anyway.

In other words you will buy/use fansubs as long as the situation suits you, when it does not anyone alse buying/using fansubs are hypocrites... that makes you an even bigger hypocrite I sure you realise.

Also you are saying that if someone happens to own any fansubs/illegal copies thy have no right to own cels. So following your logic if I go out and buy an illegal copy or download say.. finding nemo... I then have no right to go to McDonalds and buy their Finding Nemo special menu as it includes a free Fining Nemo figurine... neither do I have a right to say put on my friends Finding Nemo t-shirt. We can take your logic even further and say that a 10 year old child who hasnt seen the movie or even heard of it has no right to recieve a Finding Nemo plushie becuase that child has not "paid the creator" nor paid for that plushie.

You really shouldnt go around calling anyone a hypocrite when you do exactly what they do.. its just childinsh and immature. If you notice no one throught the entire topic offended or wrote anything that can be construed as offensive towards someone that held a different point of view.

Pomidor

[Yuuki]

I'll watch fansubs myself when something isn't available in the US yet, but I won't keep the fansubs when I like the show a lot and intend on getting the real thing anyway.

In other words you will buy/use fansubs as long as the situation suits you, when it does not anyone alse buying/using fansubs are hypocrites... that makes you an even bigger hypocrite I sure you realise.

Also you are saying that if someone happens to own any fansubs/illegal copies thy have no right to own cels. So following your logic if I go out and buy an illegal copy or download say.. finding nemo... I then have no right to go to McDonalds and buy their Finding Nemo special menu as it includes a free Fining Nemo figurine... neither do I have a right to say put on my friends Finding Nemo t-shirt. We can take your logic even further and say that a 10 year old child who hasnt seen the movie or even heard of it has no right to recieve a Finding Nemo plushie becuase that child has not "paid the creator" nor paid for that plushie.

You really shouldnt go around calling anyone a hypocrite when you do exactly what they do.. its just childinsh and immature. If you notice no one throught the entire topic offended or wrote anything that can be construed as offensive towards someone that held a different point of view.

Pomidor

I think what Oion meant is that she'll download some fansubs, decide which ones she likes, then go out and get the DVDs to the ones that she enjoyed and not bother wasting her bandwidth anymore.

You seem to have fansub and bootleg mixed up - they're two VERY different things... she never said that if you own a fansub you have no right to own cels (which is what you're accusing her of... that's how you get your hypocricy statement).

few corrections for you - you don't own/purchase/rent/spend money on fansubs. If you do... then that falls into the "bad" category, especially since 90% of fansubbing groups state in their AVI file (... which isn't a DVD) that "this is not for rent, sale or profit. If you paid for this, you've been cheated!" or something along those lines. And I'm pretty sure I can say that Oion doesn't buy her fansubs.

Bootlegs are made by people who've ripped off the R1 or R2 release, retouched the cover a little bit, added their own version of the subtitled *shudder*, and sell it as their own... not ever bothering to tell you that "hey! This isn't the real thing".

Bootlegs are terrible things in my opinion as well ( my opinion ), I don't own anything that's Region 0. I own R1 and R2 DVDs. I also have fansub downloads... my only wish is that the fansubs I have would get to DVD faster... if I have the fansub, then I want the pretty picture and sound of the DVD as well

[Pomidor]

Im sorry to say that there is no difference between an bootleg and a fansub. Both are just as illegal. Its like saying "oh yeah mp3 music files are allright because they are not CD format, and dont harm anyone since no one pays or sels them" ... I think a lot of people like.. Metallica, lol.. would strongly disagree. The only differance is that one is free and the other people make money off. If you say that they are different it would be like saying that people who give away drugs are not as bad as people who sell them (and in my personal opinion the people in the first group are worse because they will surley give away more durgs and hence do more harm).

Also fansubs are avi files because it is easier to distribute them over the net as such, and putting them onto disks is cheaper and for no other reason. It should be said however that more and more fansubbing services, which sell fansubs, are putting their stuff on DVDs nowadays.

Also it matters not if she has a fansub or a bootleg or what periond of time. Her accusation was that as soon as anyone wons an anime for which one has "paid the creator" one has no right to own original anime cels, and if at that time one does own an anime cel one immediatelly becomes a hypocrite. Therefore unless she gets rid of her cel collection everytime she downloads and watches a fansub, hence "owns" the anime without paing the creator, she herself is a hypocrite as well.

Her views on this matter do not bother me, as I am a tolerant person and I belive the.. well.. "each to his own". But its crossing the line to directly offend people, and not only that but to offend them using logic which makes her just as much hypocrite if not more.

Pomidor

[Yuuki]

Im sorry to say that there is no difference between an bootleg and a fansub.

What I was getting at, that you did not listen to, is that bootlegs are out there and decieve the general unsuspecting casual anime fan into thinking that this is the real thing... fansubs do not do that. Hooray for you if you know what you're getting is a bootleg. Regardless of your ethical view on fansubs, atleast the fansubbing group is kind enough to not go out and take unsuspecting people's money and pawn their product off as the real thing - furthermore; anyone downloading a fansub is already aware that what they're getting is not the real thing, mearly a substitute until the actual thing is a) licenced b) released. The rule of thumb with fansub distrobution is once that particular series or season is licenced, fansub distro stops... because people should go out and spend their money on the DVDs. I'm probably one out of 1000 people who actually tries to adhere to that . Atleast the fansub community does that for the company... far more than the no-name brand Hong Kong rip off that will continue to sell it's product disguised as the real thing forever more.

Yes, there are fansubbing groups out there that rip and distribute DVDs that have been released in R1. That is by far and away wrong @_@. I never want to see those... that part of the fansubbing world is a black eye.

Her views on this matter do not bother me, as I am a tolerant person and I belive the.. well.. "each to his own". But its crossing the line to directly offend people, and not only that but to offend them using logic which makes her just as much hypocrite if not more.

You opened your own can of worms by bringing up the bootleg topic... I saw nothing wrong with Oion's post. You wanted people to share their views - you got it . You seem to think that your caps-locked refusal to pay for a legit DVD and support of bootlegs doesn't offend anyone either .

I'm not here to say that people who watch/purchase HK bootlegs are the greater evil o_O;;; ( I have lots of friends with them ^^;;; ) I just... don't like the idea... at all ._.; but that's just me and my view on the world. Nothing can change that... not yet

[Darth_Bulma]

I usually stick to US releases, but I have bought some HK bootleg.
I like to watch anime in English first and then in Japanese. I know some of you die hards scorn the idea of watching it in English, but I catch myself just reading the subtitles and missing the action when I watch the JP versions.

[Pomidor]

I'm probably one out of 1000 people who actually tries to adhere to that .

You opened your own can of worms by bringing up the bootleg topic... I saw nothing wrong with Oion's post. You wanted people to share their views - you got it . You seem to think that your caps-locked refusal to pay for a legit DVD and support of bootlegs doesn't offend anyone either .

I'm not here to say that people who watch/purchase HK bootlegs are the greater evil o_O;;; ( I have lots of friends with them ^^;;; ) I just... don't like the idea... at all ._.; but that's just me and my view on the world. Nothing can change that... not yet

As you yourself pointed out very few people with fansubs actually adhere to that rule, and therefore most only download fansubs to get the anime series and leave it at that. I have nothing against the fansub comunity, but lets call things by their name. Fansubs are just as illegal as bootlegs, and if anyone argues that bootlegs are wrong because they hurt the anime creators, then fansubs do exactly the same.

Anyway the main reason I wrote the caps statement was for a laugh and to perhaps make others laugh, and some, like Keys, did appreciate the little joke. But Keys also made a good point which I was also trying to support by that statement, I do not make excuses for me buying bootlegs in the lines of "oh I just get them until they are released" or "oh Im just trying out the series"... I buy them period my reasoning behind it does not matter. Same with people downloading or buying fansubs they break the law the second they save the file on their computer, regardless how "kind" or better the fansub cominity might be, their reasons or excuses for doing so are irrelevant.

Finally I dont mind your views and I accept them and I understand where you are coming from, however what I do not tolerate is outward insulting which is what Oion did, and that was my whole problem with her statement.

On a different note, did anyone notice how on the HK releases the "companies" that produce them seem to be always the same, I think there are four of them or so ("Fx", "M-manga" and a couple others) and they always put their logo on the box and often on the disk itself. Isnt it a little strange? It would seem as if they were openly marketing their releases under their logo.. not something your average bootlegers do. It just makes me wonder that if they are in fact bootlegers wouldnt the anime companies have already shut them down. Im not arguing if they are bootlegs or not, I just find it a little strange.

Pomidor

[Keys]

I'm probably one out of 1000 people who actually tries to adhere to that .

Have more faith Yuuki. Perhaps by hanging out in different circles, I have a much more positive view of people following through. Sadly these people are tired of this debate here because it's so depressing. They're a large and mostly-silent contingent (though be sure not to mention bootlegging in their circles XD!). I usually avoid it, but a few other posts and talking to a few people made me believe that some people on Beta aren't trying to buy bootlegs, they just don't know any better. I know that some people will 'proudly' buy bootlegs, but I just want everyone to be informed so they can make their decision. I know that in the past I picked up a bootleg poster or a bootleg CD not knowing. It stung when I found out that I had been snookered and that getting things wouldn't be as cheap, but well, anime isn't a right and saving a few bucks by buying bootlegs and not the originals isn't worth it in the grand scheme of everything. I'm happy.

I know tons of people who buy the DVDs if they watched the show fansubbed. Some of them then sell the DVDs at a later date if they didn't like the show that much of course. ^^; Some people I know have been cutting down on fansubs and renting more/reading more reviews/taking more recommendations from friends so they won't have to go through all this trouble.

Finally I dont mind your views and I accept them and I understand where you are coming from, however what I do not tolerate is outward insulting which is what Oion did, and that was my whole problem with her statement.

I'm sorry to hear that you found oion's post offensive or insulting. I don't think she was trying to offend anyone here, just state her feeling on the matter as well. Her statement was strong, but I think the 'In My Opinion' was implied since this is a discussion thread, and the post wasn't directed at anyone in particular. The only line where she uses 'hypocrisy' (no use of 'hypocrite' as you've referred to a couple times) I found rather funny. It was ended with a wink, light-hearted and all.

On a different note, did anyone notice how on the HK releases the "companies" that produce them seem to be always the same, I think there are four of them or so ("Fx", "M-manga" and a couple others) and they always put their logo on the box and often on the disk itself. Isnt it a little strange? It would seem as if they were openly marketing their releases under their logo.. not something your average bootlegers do. It just makes me wonder that if they are in fact bootlegers wouldnt the anime companies have already shut them down. Im not arguing if they are bootlegs or not, I just find it a little strange.

Those companies, and probably another 5 or so more, are all listed on the Pirate Anime FAQ. Over the years, I've seen many of those labels appear and disappear over time. Sadly, anime companies aren't making a ton of money in order to go after these bootleggers. They aren't huge like the studios in the MIAA... and those huge US studios can't even stop the bootlegging that goes on in Asia and gets imported to the streets of many series. As mentioned in the Pirate Anime FAQ, the cost of trying to prosecute, especially with the overseas enforcement issues, is very high. Plus, these places have popped up under other names over the years too.

One reason they might always go under another name instead of trying to be more covert is that they do like the noteriety. It's like a hacker putting their name on a hacked website. People love to see their 'name' on things. Another reason is so that they can seem like a legitimate company, just like you hope they might be. People can be easily fooled by this, especially if they want to find a good 'honest' deal badly. Probably one reason that so much bootleg anime comes from so few sources is that they probably have pooled together to afford to buy the DVDs and manufacturing equipment in bulk.

[Pomidor]

hmm... .... I was re-reading what I wrote last night... and... hmm...

Gomen gomen

It was pretty late and I must have been oversensative. Sorry to anyone I must have annoyed the hell out of, especially Yuuki and oion
Hope I havent ruined their opinion of me and that we can be friends

Pomidor

[duotrouble]

I like to watch anime in English first and then in Japanese. I know some of you die hards scorn the idea of watching it in English, but I catch myself just reading the subtitles and missing the action when I watch the JP versions.

I'm with you! I like to watch my anime. I buy the US releases. Sometimes I'll rent the HK releases from my anime store. But I'm into anime for the artwork. Seeing subs on the screen can just get annoying.

--duo

[pastatdude]

Mostly, I buy US releases -- I prefer to watch anime dubbed as long as it's not edited. I usually wait for boxsets so I get a good deal. (I've been buying Inuyasha by the season so I can get 18 episodes for the price of 3)

If I want to watch an anime that hasn't been released in the U.S. yet, I usually download it, watch it once with the subs so I know what they're saying, and then turn the damn subs off and watch it again.

[Darth_Bulma]

I bought 2 bootleg dvd's because I didn't know they were bootleged. It was when I first started watching anime. I won't ever buy them again because the quality royally sucked on the 2 that I bought. That taught me to spend a little more for quality. That's why I only buy the US releases now, plus I like all of the extras that come with them. My Boogiepop Phantom set came with 4 dvd's, 2 pencil boards, a set a really cool cards, 3 music cd's, and a nice art box. The best part is that it only cost about $20 because I got it on sale at Best Buy.

[Wolfette]

Mostly, I buy US releases -- I prefer to watch anime dubbed as long as it's not edited. I usually wait for boxsets so I get a good deal. (I've been buying Inuyasha by the season so I can get 18 episodes for the price of 3)

Where do you get it for that price?

[Mr. Popo]

FYI I am an Ebay junkie when it comes to DVD's and Books for the most part.