2009 Anime-Beta Awards - AWARDS UP!

alyssium · Post by **alyssium** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:38 pm

I agree with Cutiebunny i think that the robot section should be left to robots and a better idea would be to open up the accessory section to not just emphasise what a character is holding but any accessory/object rather than character orientated like most the other sections are.

wELCOME cONSUMER · Post by **wELCOME cONSUMER** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:28 pm

Rei, of course it's my opinion. That's not a grand revelation.

Only one of your examples was a manga comic panel. But you do illustrate how incredibly different a shikishi is from a comic panel.

I said I wouldn't stand in the way of progress, I'm honestly not interested in causing waves. So I won't beat a dead horse if you won't.

GuyvarIII · Post by **GuyvarIII** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:47 pm

ReiTheJelly wrote: As for the argument that not enough people have color images to submit, I'd say check out these amazing pieces, which I found using a quick RS search ...

I think the concern is there have never been enough actual submissions of color Manga/Comic or Shikishii artwork to any past awards:

2007
http://www.zetsuai.eu/5thAnnualBetaAwards/manga.php

2008
http://betaawards08.zero-space.net/view ... p?id=Comic (One of the color ones is mine

... if only I had known

)

2008
http://betaawards08.zero-space.net/view ... =Shikishii

2009 Sketch Awards
http://basketch09.zero-space.net/viewen ... =Shikishii

2009 Sketch Awards:
http://basketch09.zero-space.net/viewen ... ComicManga

**Please note that one of the submissions to the comic art section of the â€œsketchâ€

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:20 pm

[quote="GuyvarIII"]

**Please note that one of the submissions to the comic art section of the â€œsketchâ€

GuyvarIII · Post by **GuyvarIII** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:37 pm

[quote="cutiebunny"][quote="GuyvarIII"]

**Please note that one of the submissions to the comic art section of the â€œsketchâ€

irmgaard · Post by **irmgaard** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:03 am

cutiebunny wrote:...if there is an award session for black/white media, it make sense that if there's another awards contest in the year, that the type of artwork already featured in the previous contest could not enter this one.

GuyvarIII wrote:Yes, they were called the Anime Beta Sketch Awards. Why are they the Black and White Awards?

I remember everything being really hectic for me around the time of the Beta Sketch Awards.

I didnâ€™t enter until the last day and only got three entries together.

I couldnâ€™t remember all the rules

, so I went back to reread them. I didnâ€™t think color, or lack of color was listed in the criterion for the entries

and it wasnâ€˜t.

Below is an assortment of colorful First Place winners

Even those who did enter might not have realized this was their one opportunity this year to enter B&W manga/comic pages, since color wasnâ€™t mentioned in the contest description or rules.

Perhapsâ€¦just for this first time, where there is an overlap of categories, all manga/comic art and shikishii should be allowed (those who entered color manga or shikishii in the Beta Sketch Awards are already able to enter twice this year as it is --except for the 2nd place winning shikishii

). Then, next year, it should be decided if those categories are a better fit with the sketches or with the cels, and color wouldnâ€™t be the deciding factor; as it is true that manga/comics, shikishii, and sketches all have color and B&W images (and there are some B&W cels, too!

).

Angelic-Lair · Post by **Angelic-Lair** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:23 am

Perhaps if we just said that anything entered into the Industry art category needs to be painted? But then what about a shikishii board done with marker? Or an inked comic panel? Do these classify as drawings (Beta Sketch Awards) or paintings (Beta Awards), as obviously they are neither.

The problem is that there needs to be some form of distinction as long as their are two separate Beta award ceremonies held in any one year. Otherwise, people get two shots in one year to win a prize. Hardly seems fair, in our opinion.

We could always eliminate the Industry art category completely this time around as the 2009 Beta Sketch Awards allowed both color and B&W comic/manga art and shikishii.

irmgaard · Post by **irmgaard** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:54 am

Angelic-Lair wrote: The problem is that there needs to be some form of distinction as long as their are two separate Beta award ceremonies held in any one year. Otherwise, people get two shots in one year to win a prize. Hardly seems fair, in our opinion.

We could always eliminate the Industry art category completely this time around as the 2009 Beta Sketch Awards allowed both color and B&W comic/manga art and shikishii.

I donâ€™t think itâ€™s as much of a problem of people getting two chances as it is people having missed the boat to enter at all.

The 2009 Beta Sketch Awards are pastâ€¦they canâ€™t be entered now.

Since it wasnâ€™t made clear before that they were the only opportunity for this type of art, people likely missed any chanceâ€¦

This is where the issue of fairness comes into playâ€¦.

Itâ€™s such a small category (which Iâ€™ve never entered) but I, and others Iâ€™m sure, enjoyed looking at it

. If no entries from the sketch awards are reentered in this Beta Awards, I donâ€™t see that those few who enter are getting an unfair opportunity.

They already have a better shot at a prize than most of us, due to the limited number of entries!

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:42 pm

GuyvarIII wrote: Why? so Shikishii can't compete with other Shikishii?

No. So black/white shikishi can compete with black/white shikishi, while colored shikishi can compete with colored shikishi.

As the majority of shikishi out there is black/white, it makes sense to have them compete against each other.

Guyvariii wrote:No, a public posted notice for everyone prior to the start of the Anime Beta Sketch Awards, so everyone could have entered their ink B&W comic pages.

How much more obvious does it have to be? If a contest caters to sketches and eliminates the colored medias, doesn't it make sense that the next contest would cater to the ignored media? How about after the polling we had concerning the division of the seperate media into their own appropriate awards?

Besides, your keyboard isn't broken. If you were confused, you could have asked. But you didn't. I don't think the question came up. To me, it seemed apparent that, by dividing the awards, the next one would be for the colored media. Otherwise, you're allowing sketches two chances at winning awards this year. That doesn't seem fair.

Yes, they were called the Anime Beta Sketch Awards. Why are they the Black and White Awards? Sketches have colored pencil, and B&W inked comic pages are done from earlier pencil sketches (as well as non-photoblue pencil).

Do you know how long a name that would have been? "The Anime Beta Sketches and Other Black/White Media done on Paper..but don't forget the colored shikishi!" awards. Yeah, that's real easy to put on a trophy.

I'm sure you're protesting so much because there's some killer sketch that you have that you're dying to enter. If the community decides to hold the Sketch Awards again, you can enter it next summer.

Since the summer awards catered to the black and white artwork, then, the winter awards should go towards the colored stuff. If the organizers choose to eliminate the shikishi this time around, I understand. But, ideally, I would like to see the colored shikishi seperated from the black/white shikishi. I think that there's a lot of shikishi out there that the elimination of this category wouldn't be a problem.

I hope that we'll address the possibility of submitting sequence mate artwork that is significantly different from a previous winner. For example, if the item that won features the character facing to the left with their eyes closed but the sequence mate features the character looking head on with their eyes open. Or something to that effect.

iceman57 · Post by **iceman57** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:04 pm

I'm a bit confused about colors and non colors... cels and non cels.

Question : Are B&W anime cels able to compete ?...
Thanks

irmgaard · Post by **irmgaard** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:54 pm

cutiebunny wrote:Since the summer awards catered to the black and white artwork, then, the winter awards should go towards the colored stuff.

iceman57 wrote:I'm a bit confused about colors and non colors... cels and non cels.

Question : Are B&W anime cels able to compete ?...

I'm thinking about this, too. I didn't think the summer awards catered to Black and White artwork, and I think my post above ( http://www.anime-beta.com/phpBB/viewtop ... c&start=80 ) showing links to First Place Winners from that awards kinda shows other people didn't think so either...

(and I've never entered the manga/comic art or shikishi

...but I do have some B&W cels...and LOTS of colored sketches... /wah

)

zerospace · Post by **zerospace** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:06 pm

I believe people are substituting "black and white" for penciled/inked artwork, and I think, only for comic/manga and shikishi. We aren't discussing cels -- those would qualify as "painted" media, and therefore would be exempt from this discussion.

The logic is that the sketch awards covered sketch art (genga, douga, layouts, all sketched--colored or not--artwork, just not painted). Many of us consider comic and manga art (and shikishi) to fall in the "sketch art" category. It's actually kind of silly to call it "black and white" as this is leading to confusion. I think the reason for the black & white distinction comes from the fact that sketches are largely monochromatic while cels are mostly done in color. This doesn't mean that the two "definitions" (color or non-color) are mutually exclusive with respect to the media they define. (Meaning: cels aren't always color and sketches aren't always black and white)

The part that is causing more confusion is that colored shikishi and comic art were allowed in the sketch awards, and perhaps they should not have been. But, considering this was year #1 for the sketch awards, mistakes do happen. Personally, I think the comic pages and manga panels belong in the sketch awards, while painted and other colored comic and manga artwork belong in the cel awards. OR, the category should go into either the sketch awards OR the cel awards and encompass ALL entries regardless of color or media, but not both.

I don't think it would be a serious issue (at least for me) if this year's "cel" awards allowed all comic and manga submissions, so long as they did not win in the summer sketch awards. I do think that next year, more consideration should be given as to how to deal with these categories IF the sketch and cel awards remain separate.

Angelic-Lair · Post by **Angelic-Lair** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:41 pm

Obviously we can't make everyone happy here... but we're still going to try. ^__^

In our minds, the best way to approach this would be to create a category for the sketch awards titled, "Industry art - pencil and ink" and to create a corresponding category for the 'cel' awards titled, "Industry art - paint and markers" or something like that.

Alternately, entries could also be limited to either the sketch awards or the 'cel' awards, as Zero has suggested.

Either way, since we obviously can't implement these options this year, we have decided it would be best to follow irmgaard's suggestion and allow both color and B&W industry art into the 2009 Anime Beta Awards.

This does not change the fact that the "Industry art" category effectively merges comic/manga art with shikishi.

We welcome additional discussion on this matter to determine how future Beta awards will be handled, but unfortunately we cannot leave this year's categories open to discussion for much longer.

Angelic-Lair · Post by **Angelic-Lair** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:43 pm

cutiebunny wrote: I hope that we'll address the possibility of submitting sequence mate artwork that is significantly different from a previous winner. For example, if the item that won features the character facing to the left with their eyes closed but the sequence mate features the character looking head on with their eyes open. Or something to that effect.

Unless someone can give us an objective means of determining whether or not the difference between sequence mates is "significant", we're going to have to rely on the rules as they are written, and that means no sequence mates to previous Beta award winners. These rules have been in place for a while now, and we have to believe there was a good reason why this one reads as it does.

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:16 pm

Previous awards have allowed sequence mates to be submitted if the sequence mates were significantly different.

I do not recall that there was actually a rule regarding whether or not an item could be submitted if it was significantly different than a previous winner.

Significantly different is subjective. That's where the organizers come in and decide if the artwork is significantly different.

Question - As you've divided the industry art to ink and colored, if a shikishi is drawn in black ink but uses one other color(ie. the artist signs in a color), will it fall under 'ink' or 'colored'?

Additionally...are we allowed to submit artwork into both industry 'ink' and industry 'colored'?

Anime-Beta TNG

2009 Anime-Beta Awards - AWARDS UP!

Robot/accessory