Let's Discuss Rules

[Goldknight]

So here are the rules etc that were listed for this years awards:

Hello, and welcome to the 2009 Anime-Beta Awards!!! ^__^

Please refer to this thread for any questions you may have about the awards. New information will be posted as soon as it becomes available. ^__^

Site:

http://awards2009.angelic-lair.com

Timeline:

Submissions will be accepted from 8 AM EST on November 30 until 8 PM EST on December 6, 2009.

Viewing will take place on December 14 & December 15, 2009. Any submission problems will be addressed during this period.

Voting will take place from 8 AM EST on December 16 until 8 PM EST on December 20, 2009.

Awards will be presented on or around December 27, 2009.

Categories:

Please note that categories marked with an * are optional to submit artwork to and to vote in. If you submit artwork to an optional category, you must vote in that category.

(C) = Cel (H) = Hanken (MC) = Model Cel (O) = Other (P) = Painting (R) = Rilezu (RC) = Reproduction Cel

Accessory - Emphasis on what the character is holding, using, swinging, playing, aiming. (C)
Action - Scenes of action, movement, motion. (C)
Background - No characters allowed. (C, P)
Children - Youth, babies, kids. (C)
Creature - Animals, monsters, pets, catgirls, demons. (C)
Cute - Adorable, precious, toothache inducing. (C)
Death/Dying - Characters in the final throws of death, or those that have already passed away. (C)
Fan Art - Made by you or another artist. (C, P, O)
Female - The fairer sex. (C)
Funny - Laugh out loud moments. (C)
Group - Art of two or more characters. (C)
Hanken - Art used for merchandise or other non-production special circumstances. Hankens are not allowed in any other category except hentai. (C, H, P, O)
Harmony - Unique combinations of line work and watercolor used to convey deep emotion and profound artistry. (C, P)
Heroic - White knight saves the day. (C)
Industry Art - Original artwork from industry artists, comic artists and mangakas. (C, P, O)
Joy - Extreme happiness. (C)
Male - Boys, men, guys, bishonen. (C)
Outfit - Best dressed, emphasis on clothes and costumes. (C)
Rage - Mad, angry, extreme agitation. (C)
Rilezu/Repro - Made to be bought. One-of-a-kind or limited edition. (R, RC)
Robot - Our mechanical friends. (C)
Romance - Kissing, hugging, cuddling, anything non-explicit. (C)
Shocked - Stunned, horrified, utter dismay. (C)
Sorrow - Tear-jerkers, sadness. (C)
Special Effect - Power bursts, transformation effects, airbrushing, etc. (C)
Tranquility - Characters who have found their inner peace. (C)
Vehicle - Takes you where you want to go. (C)
Villainous - Archenemies, evil scientists, meanies, wicked bad guys. (C)
Animated* - Short sequences of animated artwork. (C)
Hentai* - Sexually explicit & nude. All pairings welcome! (C, H)
Settei* - Characters, items or scenery. Settei are not allowed in any other category. (MC)

Submitting:

To submit your entries for the 2009 Anime-Beta Awards contest, please attach them to an email addressed to: animebeta2009(at)yahoo.ca (please use the @ sign instead of 'at').

Entries should be saved as a jpeg and renamed to include the name of the category they are to be entered into (for example: hanken.jpg). Animated entries should be saved as a gif.

Please note that the body of the email must include the following:

1) Your Anime-Beta user ID
2) The e-mail address attached to your Anime-Beta account
3) A complete list of categories entered

Submission guidelines:

1) Only one entry per category is allowed by any participant.

2) While you are permitted a total of 8 submissions (5 in the standard categories and 3 in the optional categories), you are not required to submit eight different items. You may enter fewer items if you choose.

3) The maximum width for all standard size cels or artwork is 450 pixels. Pan or oversized cels or artwork may not exceed 600 pixels on the longest side. You may submit artwork that is less than the maximum pixel size, however, anything larger than the maximum pixel size will be resized accordingly. Regardless of the size of the item, the total file size can not exceed 300k. The maximum file size for animation submissions is 800K.

4) Artwork that has received a Beta Award in previous years cannot be submitted under any category. Sequence mates of previous winners will be allowed if there is a substantial diffence between the two. The organizers must be informed which piece you are submitting a sequence mate of.

5) Unless there is an obvious difference, sequence mates in the same category are not permitted. Similarly, identical repro cels in the rilezu/repro category are not permitted. Whoever submits the artwork first will be allowed to use that artwork in that category. If you submit a sequence mate to an item that is already in a category, you will have the chance to re-submit another item in lieu of the repeated piece.

6) Categories with fewer than five entries will be eliminated. You will have the chance to re-submit artwork to another category.

Rules:

1) You must be a registered member of Anime-Beta by the start of the submission process.

2) You must physically own all artwork that you submit. Submitted artwork does not have to be posted in your gallery.

3) Submitted artwork may not include watermarks or any other type of 'tag' that could affiliate it with a gallery or owner.

4) If you submit artwork for consideration in this contest, you must vote for all categories. The only exceptions are the optional categories (animated, hentai and settei). These categories are both optional to vote in and optional to submit artwork to. If, however, you submit artwork to an optional category, you must vote in that category.

5) Even if you do not submit artwork, you may still vote in any or all of the categories.

Industry art:

If an industry artist signed something that is not a standard shikishii board/blank piece of paper, only the signature and any original accompanying artwork are allowed to be submitted. In other words, if an industry artist signed their name and drew a smiley face on a poster, you may only submit the portion of the poster that contains the signature and the smiley face.

Animated art:

Animated submissions may only include that which was part of the original studio animated sequence; no flashing lights, no disco music, nothing else.

Image modifications:

Modification and/or enhancement of images is not permitted. The only exception is for oversized images requiring multiple scans. You may piece these scans together to make a complete image.

Credits:

Discussion Committee - Angelic-Lair, DragonShiryu & Starfighter

Site Design/Coding - Angelic-Lair

Site Testing - Belldandy16

Submission Processing - Angelic-Lair

Vote Counting - Belldandy16 & Midnite Kitten

Award Graphics - Midnite Kitten & ReiTheJelly

Contact:

Please make sure to post in the thread if you have any general questions. The discussion should take place here.
If you have a specific question about the 2009 Anime-Beta Awards, or would like to get in touch with someone on the team, please send an email to: animebeta2009[at]yahoo.ca (please use the @ sign instead of 'at')

Thanks!
_________________
Joel & Valerie
Angelic-Lair.com

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Last edited by Angelic-Lair on Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:46 pm; edited 21 times in total

Time to chat about what needs to stay and what needs to go. Again these are rules that can be set in stone for future organizers of the awards and hopefully this will also decrease arguments. If there are polls that need to be taken then maybe start a new topic for that poll and once the votes are tallied we can change that part of the rules/categories in this topic. Once it's all worked out I will generate a new section of the forum with the set rules etc. If it helps then maybe we can do something like this for the genga awards as well.

[JWR]

Well I can think of 2 questions that should be discussed.

There was some question about the Settei section and what should be allowed into it. Settei by nature are actual paper reference drawing used by animators. I made the suggestion of changing the catagory title to "Preproduction Art" which would encompass Settei , Test cels and Storyboards. The difference between the cel and sketch awards would involve color rather then paper vs plastic.

Another one to think over would be with rilezus. In the past rilezu cels were able to be submitted in all catagories. This year they were added with post production cels which unlike rilezu's are not 1 offs to create a new section. Personally I see a major difference between rilezu's and reproduction cels due to rilezu's being hand created like a true production cel unlike being done by a machine like most reproduction cels in which have multiple identical copies. The exception was some Celuclub Eva cels that were hand done. Rilezu cels images can run the gambit of catagories including Hankens. I believe that influx of artwork from newer shows provided by rilezu cels would enhance the awards.

[Kata]

Another one to think over would be with rilezus. In the past rilezu cels were able to be submitted in all catagories. This year they were added with post production cels which unlike rilezu's are not 1 offs to create a new section. Personally I see a major difference between rilezu's and post production cels due to rilezu's being hand created like a true production cel unlike being done by a machine like most post production cels in which have multiple identical copies. The exception was some Celuclub Eva cels that were hand done. Rilezu cels images can run the gambit of catagories including Hankens. I believe that influx of artwork from newer shows provided by rilezu cels would enhance the awards.

Rilezu and Post-Production cels are the same. Are you referring to Reproduction cels since those are being made of the same image more then once?

[benten]

OK, I'll start off with questioning rule 4

4) If you submit artwork for consideration in this contest, you must vote for all categories. The only exceptions are the optional categories (animated, hentai and settei). These categories are both optional to vote in and optional to submit artwork to. If, however, you submit artwork to an optional category, you must vote in that category.

I don't see any real reason to require submitters to vote, let alone requiring them to vote in all categories. Was this requirement originally established to guarantee that enough votes were cast in each category?

Also, there is no penalty mentioned for failure to vote. Again, I'm in favor of dropping the whole rule, but, if you're going to have one, shouldn't the penalty for not voting be clearly stated?

[benten]

Also, under submission guideline 6:

6) Categories with fewer than five entries will be eliminated. You will have the chance to re-submit artwork to another category.

I would suggest it be changed to reduce the elimination threshold from 5 to 3:
6) Categories with fewer than three entries will be eliminated. You will have the chance to re-submit artwork to another category.

Then, under rules, I would suggest adding:

6) First, second, and third place awards will be made for categories with five or more entries. First and second place awards will be made for categories with four entries. A first place award will be made for categories with three entries.

Whether this specific suggestion is accepted or not, I would argue that a rule stating the numbers of awards that are planned to be awarded is a good idea.

[Olivier]

Regarding the rules, I suggest we discuss the criteria for voting. I already brought this point lately but it would be nice to have a proper debate this time.
I understand that currently many people vote for the cel that, according to them, fits best each category name. I wish people voted for the most beautiful and significant cel instead.
I know this might lead to many awards going to a few people, however in the current situation the results of the contest are all down to the category names, which doesn't seem very fair either.
Also, maybe we could swap to slightly larger images because submitting a small image of a huge and very detailed cel doesn't do it justice.

[cutiebunny]

I would like to see the old rule regarding that catagories with less than 5 entries still be accepted, but with fewer awards given. That way, catagories like pre production artwork will still be allowed to compete.

I also would like to see an ironed out rule regarding the submission of industry artwork. My opinion is that the sketch awards should feature monotone artwork(ie. Black ink on white paper, blue ink on white paper) while the cel awards should featured any artwork that involves any more color than one color of ink and the media that it was drawn on. This would, therefore include all shikishi drawn in black with the artist's signature in another color.

Regarding rilezu, I think that they should be allowed to participate in all applicable catagories.

[zerospace]

I don't see any real reason to require submitters to vote, let alone requiring them to vote in all categories. Was this requirement originally established to guarantee that enough votes were cast in each category?

Also, there is no penalty mentioned for failure to vote. Again, I'm in favor of dropping the whole rule, but, if you're going to have one, shouldn't the penalty for not voting be clearly stated?

In the past, the entries were disqualified if the entrant failed to vote. Personally, I think rule #4 should stay -- it doesn't seem to right to allow people to enter and not vote, after all, if everyone entered but no one voted, it wouldn't be much of a contest, would it?

I agree with cutiebunny about the categories and awards given. I like the idea that fewer awards are given to categories with fewer than 5 entries.

[ReiTheJelly]

I believe that the #1 issue which must be discussed before *any* rules can be set in stone is the issue of whether or not to continue the A-B Awards as two separate contests (paper and plastic) or combine them again. Personally, I believe that it is already hard enough to subjectively judge similar artwork without the added hassle of comparing paper to plastic. I'm all for leaving it as it stands -- two separate contests.

4) Artwork that has received a Beta Award in previous years cannot be submitted under any category. Sequence mates of previous winners will be allowed if there is a substantial diffence between the two. The organizers must be informed which piece you are submitting a sequence mate of.

We should address what exactly "substantial differences" means. What it means to one person can be completely different to another. I realize this rule will be difficult to elucidate, but I think we should at least *try* to get something in writing, or at least create a visual guide of YAY/NAY.

6) Categories with fewer than five entries will be eliminated. You will have the chance to re-submit artwork to another category.

I suppose it would be best to make this a minimum of 3, with the number of trophies given being dependent upon how many entries are received.




Another issue: the number of trophies handed out in any given category. In recent years, we have been giving the same award to artwork which tied for number of votes. Should we change this so that, for example, if two people win First Prize, a single Second Prize is given, but no Third?

4) If you submit artwork for consideration in this contest, you must vote for all categories. The only exceptions are the optional categories. If, however, you submit artwork to an optional category, you must vote in that category.

I firmly believe that this rule should stand. This contest is all about having fun within the community. If a member cannot be bothered to vote, but wishes to still win prizes, that is rather selfish on their part and their entries *should* be disqualified.

If an industry artist signed something that is not a standard shikishii board/blank piece of paper, only the signature and any original accompanying artwork are allowed to be submitted. In other words, if an industry artist signed their name and drew a smiley face on a poster, you may only submit the portion of the poster that contains the signature and the smiley face.

Considering that this is an ART contest (albeit a subjective one), I believe that this category should be limited to artwork done by industry members and not allow signatures. I know this has not been a problem in the past, but I still think this category could do with some updating.
I also believe that we should have clear guidelines for what can be submitted to the Sketch Awards and what can be submitted to the Cel Awards. Given their names, I would say that ALL industry art now belongs in the Sketch Awards and that this category should be removed from the Cel Awards -- I've never heard of an industry artist who painted a fan cel for anyone.



Oversized images: Do we sacrifice image quality for pixel size? Is it fair to allow special treatment for oversized pieces, as some folks have very detailed regular sized cels? I believe that this question must be answered on a year-to-year basis, depending on who is making the website.



As to Olivier's request about changing the way we vote, I am quite against this suggestion. The whole point of these awards was to have something fun to do during the "dull" times of the year. They are supposed to be FUN and not be about who has the best cels. "Best" is a subjective term and we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. If it was all about whose cel was the Best, we wouldn't have gotten rid of the Best of Show category many years ago, and we would just lump all the cels together on a big page and choose just one winner.



As for the subject of relizu and reproduction cels, I believe that repros should be allowed back in every category. I know this will shock many people, as several years ago I was a firm opponent of relizu even being allowed in the contest. But times are changing and relizu cels are legitimate one-of-a-kind cels. It also offers newer shows a chance to be seen in the Cel Awards and not be simply relegated to the Sketch-only Awards.
Repros, on the other hand, are a different story. While some reproduction cels are limited in number with some being of a very elite, small batch, others are unlimited or are in the thousands of editions. I do not believe that hand-painted reproduction cels should be allowed in the Cel Awards at all, since they are not unique pieces of artwork.


And, although this suggestion will make me very unpopular, I would like to put out the idea that we should not allow American-made shows to participate. This website is called ANIME-Beta, which indicates that we are all about Japanese animation. This is a difficult one, because shows such as The Transformers were made by Toei, but we traditionally think of them as an "American" show... I don't even know. Everyone else can discuss this, because my brain hurts.

[zerospace]

I agree with pretty much everything Rei said .. and she raises some interesting issues.

On the subject of separating the awards: I like the idea of two separate contests -- one for cels and one for sketches.

As for dealing with ties: I think how the awards have been given out to tying entries is just fine. Yes, it means more awards are given out, but that just makes more folks happy. And the contest is for fun, after all!

On the subject of voting "rules" or guidelines: I don't believe this is necessary, as voting is something that is entirely subjective. Creating a rule or a guideline for people to follow involves telling people how they should vote. If you're going to tell people how to vote, you might as well not bother to have a contest at all.

[JWR]

Rilezu and Post-Production cels are the same. Are you referring to Reproduction cels since those are being made of the same image more then once?

Thanks , your correct I've edited my 1st post.

[cutiebunny]

I don't think that the divison should strictly be paper and plastic. We had a hard time with the fan-art section during the last sketch awards because most people own fan cels and not fan paintings done on paper media.

Rather, I think the division should be largely done on color. Most sketches are pencil lines(sometimes with some minor coloring) on white and yellow papers.

There's a lot of industry artwork out there and if you're going to divide the sketches from the cels partily because they're not as 'eye catching' as the colored stuff, then industry art needs to be given the same courtesy.

I agree that if you submit artwork that you need to vote. If you fail to do so, you're disqualified. If you submit artwork that you don't own, you're disqualified as well.

I do not agree with Olivier's idea as well. I don't see how one could really judge what, artistically, is best. What I think is best might not be how everyone else sees it.

Besides, it's a fun contest.

[sensei]

I think the pixel size and "best" cel are obviously related. No cel's real impact can be judged fairly by a reduced digital scan. I tried to make this point humorously by suggesting that next year participants mail the actual cels to the panel of judges. That was a sarcasm (gomenasai!) but one based on a sincere observation.

There are many oversized cels and sketches that I own that impress through their creative use of amplitude. A scan of 600 pixels to the short side simply does not and cannot represent these art objects, just as a poster simply cannot represent a painting like Bosch's "Garden of Earthly Delights" (which my daughter and I stood in front of for a never-forgotten fifteen minutes at the Prado years ago).

Also, given the variety of animation styles, ranging from realistic to SD, romantic farce to dystopian hyperviolence (with ecchi/hentai along the way), it would seem as difficult to determine a "Best" without first determining which anime style is "superior." Is Akira better than Totoro? Is Sailor Moon a visually stronger series than Dragonball Z? Are Jackson Pollock's "dripped" canvases greater works of 20th century fine art than Andy Warhol's silk-screened Campbell Soup cans?

That said, I think it might be an interesting experiment to try out a "Best of Beta" contest that would be entirely separate from the "People's Choice" awards presently being discussed. But, like dog shows, garden club competitions, and Olympic figure skating events, it would need:

1. A set of objective criteria to be used in an even-handed way for all items submitted: condition, uniqueness, importance in the series, artistic composition, use of color, etc.
2. A smallish panel of experienced judges with background in some artistically-related profession or pastime (e.g., photography, web design, teaching art)
3. A fairly tight set of rules for submission, including a full (300 dpi) unaltered scan of the item to be judged. A scan of this detail can be zoomed into to look for evidence of digital manipulation or damage in the original.
4. Probably, as with the events described above, a series of elimination rounds so that the final deliberation is made on a small slate of contestants, probably no more than 15.

If this were done, then it might have some of the impact that Olivier and others would like in judging certain items as objectively belonging to the top 0.1% of cels being held by members of this community.

(Needless to say, I would expect the judges' decision to be a difficult one, and, as with dog shows and figure skating medals, highly contested among the contestants and their supporters.)

For the Beta Awards, they've served their purpose since 2005, and if they are not obviously broke, I'd say don't do much to fix them.

[iceman57]

Some stones added to the cathedral...

STAFF:
- Organisers don't have to compete.
- IT and graphics need to be ready before the contest start.

CATEGORIES:
- Reduce the list and keep active the 5 years "classic" categories to not dissolve the submissions.

ENTRIES:
- While picture of arts are downsized, allow a Photoshop filter "sharpen edges".

VOTES :
- Submitter can't vote (or if he/she can, he/she can't vote for his own).
- Advertise about the competition on main board page, there are 920 potential voters and only 7% really voting, this need to be increased.

RESULTS :
- Use sports competition way, the "3 ex-aequo" isn't good at all. Ex aequo have to reduce the number of available awards. I.E. : If there are two 2nd, that can't be a 3rd ranked.

[zerospace]

For the Beta Awards, they've served their purpose since 2005, and if they are not obviously broke, I'd say don't do much to fix them.

Agreed. I don't think this thread should be taken as the opportunity to change all of the rules, but more of a discussion of finalizing the existing rule set (as it has been pretty much the same for several years -- with a few exceptions).

Many of the issues being raised here are things that have come up year after year, often with the same result each year (but not always). The one thing that is somewhat disturbing about this thread is that unlike during a particular year's awards, there is really no one to make the final decision on what should stay and what should go. I presume this is to be done via popular vote (so.. polls?).

I also think that on the subject of rilezu and reproductions that those are things that should be discussed each year, rather than placed in a permanent set of rules. Let's not get too crazy about rules ... as in so doing, you may actually end up ruining the spirit of the Beta Awards contest.