Discussion: Qualification of past winning and entered cels

Post by **JWR** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:22 pm

What should be the Qualification (or lack thereof) of past winners and sequence mates

The rules had been that if you entered a cel you could not enter the same cel for 3 years if it had not won. If it was a winning cel it could not be entered again at all. Now with so many cels changing hands as well as a lot of sequence mates being owned but different collectors we should look at how best to handle things.

I would propose that a winning cel that changed hands be allowed to be entered by the new owner 3 years after the contest it won in.

A cel that had been entered but did not win should be able to be re-entered by it's new owner the next year.

Sequence mates of a winning cel should be allowed to be entered 2 years the 1st cel won an award. Those sequence mates that are of cels thqat had been entered but did not win should be able to be entered the next year.

What do you think?

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:09 pm

I'm going to change my position and say that, for the sake of simplicity, no sequence mates(either sketch sequence mates of winning cels or vice versa) be allowed.

Because, with some of the rules mentioned and including the "significantly different" rule that had been used in the previous awards, there's a real grey area. Define "significantly different". It varies from person to person, especially when that person is the one that submitted the artwork.

The rules that you mentioned, JWR, are confusing. It reminded me of using airline miles - You can use them Tuesday-Thursday, except on holidays, peak hours and any day ending with "y".

There's still plenty of artwork out there. Considering that anime cels were made for approximately 40 years and the plethora of anime released during that period, that's a lot of artwork. I don't think we're going to run into a shortage of artwork any time soon, especially of the CG variety.

So, in short -

If a cel won an award, it can not be re-entered again in any category. Its counterpart douga/genga or sequence mate cel/douga/genga, can not be entered into the awards.

If a sketch won an award, it can not be re-entered again in any category. Its counterpart cel/douga/genga or sequence mate cel/douga/genga can not be entered into any awards.

If a sketch or cel was entered but did not win an award, either item or a sequence mate can be entered into any competition.

I know that it's not fair for new owners of previous winners to not have the opportunity to submit that artwork, but then again, it's not fair for the rest of the contestants to compete with a previous winner.

ReiTheJelly · Post by **ReiTheJelly** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:38 pm

cutiebunny wrote:If a cel won an award, it can not be re-entered again in any category. Its counterpart douga/genga or sequence mate cel/douga/genga, can not be entered into the awards.

If a sketch won an award, it can not be re-entered again in any category. Its counterpart cel/douga/genga or sequence mate cel/douga/genga can not be entered into any awards.

I'm going to disagree with this. Disallowing sequence mates is quite unfair to new members. They have never had an opportunity to participate in the awards before, and now we'd be telling them that some of their artwork is ineligible because someone 5 years ago entered a sequence mate. That doesn't seem too friendly, for what is supposed to be a not very serious contest.

benten · Post by **benten** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:58 pm

If a cel/sketch does not win an award, there should be no restriction on submission of it or its sequence mates in any subsequent event. It does not seem worth the time and energy to police such a policy for cels that don't win any award.

I think a policy that does not have a time limit to the exclusion of award winners will prove to be impractical.

zerospace · Post by **zerospace** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:26 pm

I don't think elimination of sequence mates to non-winning cels or sketches has been proposed by anyone, has it?

I, too, think that perhaps a time limit between sequence mate/same-cel-new-owner entries should be imposed. But I also think that enforcement of this rule would be rather difficult, depending on how well maintained past awards web sites are. If past sites are taken down quickly (which they haven't thus far), the information needed would not be available, and so something like what cutiebunny said might be simpler.

cutiebunny wrote:I know that it's not fair for new owners of previous winners to not have the opportunity to submit that artwork, but then again, it's not fair for the rest of the contestants to compete with a previous winner.

This really does sum up the dilemma nicely

. But if we're going for fun, the time limit is probably the most "fair" course of action for everyone, IMO.

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:24 pm

ReiTheJelly wrote:Disallowing sequence mates is quite unfair to new members.

I'm not quite sure how it is unfair to new members to not allow sequence mates. Older members are(likely) buying artwork all the time, just as new members are. It is no more unfair for an older member than for a newer member. So, because I, an older member, missed out on an Anime Taro update in 2002 which featured a winning cel, I should be given special priority to enter a sequence mate that I was able to later obtain? No, shouldn't work like that.

Considering that each 30 minute anime has roughly 280-300 cuts per episode, and even if we assumed that each cut solely consisted of an A1END item, over the span of a normal 26 episode series, that's over 6500 cels. I mean, I realize that if this were the Anime Beta Awards in 2100 that this might be an issue. But right now, considering the plethora of artwork out there, I don't see why there's a need for us to submit sequence mates.

Both members and organizers have not viewed every anime out there, and even if they did, to remember entire, lengthy sequences and how the character looked at the first frame and the last is next to impossible. A character facing one way could easily have a sequence mate with the same character facing another. Additionally, many members own artwork from anime they have never watched. In cases such as these, I can see that trying to determine if something is a sequence mate would be difficult.

I dunno, I just feel that by making all these official 'discussion' posts that there's just no more fun. Yes, it's important that all entrants participate by voting and that no one cheats, but the buracracy involved, thus far, just makes it far too stiffling.

But that's my 1.8 yen....

toonybabe · Post by **toonybabe** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:10 pm

After a couple more years it might get a little hard to remember which cels won awards. We could go back to the past websites for that information but after some time that will be a lot of websites to keep track of (one per year for cel and sketch awards). Maybe someone could make a rubberslug gallery soley for keeping track of the winners from each year and everyone could go to it for future reference. Then it would be easy to see whether someone owns a sequence mate that won an award during a previous year. I would be willing to make such a gallery when I am less busy - like over the summer. Would people be comfortable putting images of their cels in an Anime Beta Awards gallery?

Post by **JWR** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:11 pm

cutiebunny wrote:
The rules that you mentioned, JWR, are confusing. It reminded me of using airline miles - You can use them Tuesday-Thursday, except on holidays, peak hours and any day ending with "y".

Thats why I asked for interested people to discuss and hopefully we can come to some sort of consensus. I don't pretend that what I put forth is the end all but just a starting point for everyone.

It is a complex issue and I tried to come up with what I think is fair but it's just my opinion and if the majority decide something else I will be more than willing to abide by their decsion.